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[#] Thu Sep 10 2009 14:25:14 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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Yeah, I've got piles of memory for motherboards I've long since thrown away.
I still have 30 pin simms. :-)

[#] Thu Sep 10 2009 22:29:55 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I still have 30 pin simms. :-)

size matters not.

[#] Fri Sep 11 2009 14:50:10 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I've got old memory too, but it isn't because I don't want to throw it away, it's because I no longer have any clue what kind of memory goes in what equipment, so I don't *know* if I still have the motherboard.

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 01:42:58 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Bah. I hate computers. I brought home a couple of rackmount servers that had been left behind by a customer that moved out. A little old, but still better than what I'm running at home right now. I spent two hours meticulously prepping a clone of my system disk, replacing the drivers, assembling all of the parts and getting everything set up correctly in the rack (yes, I have a server rack at home) ...

... only to find that these servers are utterly incompatible with the card that connects my phone system to the outside world. Dead stop.

There's two hours of my life that I'll never have back. And now I'm too wound up to sleep.

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 13:43:58 EDT from Nite*Star @ Uncensored

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Aug 27 2009 10:44pm from LoanShark @uncnsrd

Absolutely. 2gig is enough for a single-OS machine, just barely enough


LS, 2GB of RAM is NOT enough for a Windows-based single-OS machine. 3GB is enough. I have 3GBV and routinely end up with <1GB of free RAM!

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 15:25:00 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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LS, 2GB of RAM is NOT enough for a Windows-based single-OS machine.
3GB is enough. I have 3GBV and routinely end up with <1GB of free RAM!


Works fine for me, running firefox, eclipse and an ~800meg virtualbox all at once, on an XP host. Or it would work fine if not for the virus scanner, which uses a ton of memory sometimes and drives the machine into swap with all that stuff running. If you think 2GB is not enough, uninstall your virus scanner, and you will probably be fine.

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 15:50:26 EDT from Nite*Star @ Uncensored

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implement, and they have QA as good as or better than Linux's, the only

place they fall down is that you don't have the source so you can't
debug it yourself if it comees to that.

That, and the price-gouging....

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 16:19:26 EDT from Nite*Star @ Uncensored

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Did you try to WHOIS their URL to get a physicl address or are they going through GoDaddy's damned privatization proxy?

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 16:22:22 EDT from Nite*Star @ Uncensored

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Works fine for me, running firefox, eclipse and an ~800meg virtualbox

all at once, on an XP host. Or it would work fine if not for the virus

scanner, which uses a ton of memory sometimes and drives the machine
into swap with all that stuff running. If you think 2GB is not enough,

uninstall your virus scanner, and you will probably be fine.

LS, it's not juts the virus scanner (I'm using AVAST); it's a bunch of other things that just add up. Lots of Windows svchost.exe running, lots of Google/HP crap running, bunch of other stuff....

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 17:15:22 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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That, and the price-gouging....

Nonsense, unless you are a freeloader with regards to the Linux community, Windows is unquestionably cheaper. If you are not a linux freeloader, you either spend some time contributing, or you throw some money in Red Hat's general direction. Red Hat = $$$. More expensive than MS for a lesser level of support. Fewer years in the official support life cycle.. and of course, if you spend time improving Linux, the time you spend on it is worth way more than you would have paid to MS. time is money.

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 17:16:54 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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LS, it's not juts the virus scanner (I'm using AVAST); it's a bunch of

other things that just add up. Lots of Windows svchost.exe running,
lots of Google/HP crap running, bunch of other stuff....

so don't run all that crap. if you have 2 gigs utilized on an xp machine all the time, you are doing something very wrong. I'm running a 2 gig BOX and i still have enough free memory for Eclipse (which consumes anywhere from 300-900 megs) and an 800 meg virtual.

start going through programs and clicking uninstall.

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 17:31:12 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Nonsense, unless you are a freeloader with regards to the Linux
community, Windows is unquestionably cheaper. If you are not a linux

You aren't figuring in conscientious objection to anything associated with Microsoft. For you that might be nil or close to nil, but for others, there's a real value associated with a clear conscience.

You also aren't figuring in the fact that using free Linux stuff (like CentOS) and doing your own support gets cheaper the more you do it. If you're at a company like mine where man-hours are not associated with a per hour cost (unless it's billable to a customer, our time is considered a fixed cost), the more you use it the cheaper it gets.

Are there some orgs for which tithing to Microsoft is currently cheaper than a Linux solution? Probably... but I object to the "unquestionably cheaper" assertion. There are a lot of variables ... far more variables than are included in Microsoft's periodic "TCO studies."

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 18:57:05 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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You also aren't figuring in the fact that using free Linux stuff (like

CentOS) and doing your own support gets cheaper the more you do it. If


Using CentOS is freeloading. Of course, we're using it all over the place. But that doesn't mean it isn't freeloading.

[#] Sat Sep 12 2009 19:30:26 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Red Hat's official position on CentOS is that they're cool with it. They know that the ability to help yourself to existing open source software is what enabled their business in the first place. And they know that when some self-important auditor comes along and demands that you run a "supported" operating system, it's a no-brainer that you'll move to RHEL.

[#] Sun Sep 13 2009 11:38:59 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Yeah, sure, helping yourself to existing open source software is exactly what made linux possible because it increased the base of would-be developers. This is all well known and straight out of Raymond. However. It doesn't work unless a significant portion of those would-be developers decide to stop freeloading and start contributing. Which doesn't happen, unless a large percentage of them are insane. I mean think about it, you could fork over $150 or $300 or so to Microsoft. Which is CHEAP, compared to the weeks of lost manhours that you could pay when you decide to contribute to Linux just to fix a couple of small issues like sound drivers or power management.


That's the equation on a personal indivudial-user level: the economics don't add up, and your time is worth more than that. If you're a Google, maybe the economics are a little different and it's helpful to have something customizable.



[#] Sun Sep 13 2009 19:37:32 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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If you go with that logic, a big open source ecosystem and/or a 100% open source operating system cannot happen and will never happen. But it did happen.

[#] Sun Sep 13 2009 21:46:04 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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open source operating system cannot happen and will never happen. But

it did happen.

you missed the part where I worked insanity into the equation ;)

[#] Mon Sep 14 2009 07:39:31 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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While your time is a fixed cost so the more work you do the cheaper linux becomes is true, most companies aren't as tech heavy as yours.

People are expensive, and it's not just salaries. Add in benefits and hr costs and you have to do a LOT of supporting to make paying a local person cheaper than paying an outside company,
And then you have the problem that you can quit at any time whereas support is continuous and isn't affected by individual staff action.
Depends on the size of your company too.
If you have a huge company, yeah, you';re going to have a big IT staff and since they're there anyway it works.
At my place we have one of the saddest things I've ever seen
They can't justify an entire salary to IT becuase our office is only 60 people or so, but they need SOMEBODY here to install software and replace machines, so they hired a guy with the role of "IT and facilities."
Yes, this highly trained IT guy has to fix computers and clean out the fridge. Fix or find the building maintenance guy to fix the toilet, make sure the cleaning staff doesn't throw out the recycling...
I know I'm a snot about this, but it seems a little degrading. I didn't go to school and bust my ass to learn really complicated shit to change toilet paper rolls.

[#] Mon Sep 14 2009 07:42:03 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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Of course if I were hungry and needed a job I'd be happy to ask you if you wanted fries with that.
Working at the video store was one of the most mindless and relaxing jobs I've ever had.

[#] Mon Sep 14 2009 12:39:27 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Sep 14 2009 7:39am from Ford II @uncnsrd
While your time is a fixed cost so the more work you do the cheaper

linux becomes is true, most companies aren't as tech heavy as yours.


N.b. The more linux machines you deploy, the cheaper linux becomes. What's economical for Google to support THEIR use cases is not economical for me and mine. Because ultimately, with Linux, nobody will support your use case but YOU. Unless you pay red hat...

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