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[#] Mon Aug 24 2009 14:53:41 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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Mon Aug 24 2009 09:47:17 AM EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored
I spent a lot of time this weekend doing research to buy parts for a new machine.
One thing I realized is that people are stupid. Even technical people.
Specifically I'm talking about the overclocking crowd.
Now I'm all about getting as much for your money as possible, but there are LOTS of people on newegg who complain that they overclock things andit doesn't work.
I don't know if this is how it works anymore but in the good old days, intel would build a chip to the best specifications that it could, then test it. If it tested reliably at a 3ghz chip, it was sold as a 3ghz chip.

If it only tested reliably at 2.5ghz, it was sold as a 2.5ghz chip.
Now in the days of quad cores, I can see where it would be hard to build a chip where all four cores tested reliably at 3ghz, which is why those chips are so much more expensive than the 2.8ghz for example.
So people buy the 2.8ghz then try and overclock them and complain when they don't work.
Fucking morons.

Agreed.  My processor is Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 @2.4GHz on an older ASUS P-5NE/SLI mobo and I've only done a 2% overclock with a 4% voltage boost and got it up to 2.54ghz.. i can push it to 2.7, but why do it? i'm perfectly happy with the stability and reliability at 2.4 and have no need to overclock.

Overclocking has such a small difference on overall performance that i see no real reason to do it unless you're doing some extremely heavy data processing... then it MIGHT make a dent, but it's not going to show extreme performance boost like most claim. You want a performance boost? Go with faster MEMORY, your processor could flatten any memory on the market just because most are still using a north-bridge... i like the new tri-channel stuff coming out.. Nalheim i7 is changing things.

that's enough for my OC rant... my point is, i dont see any reason to overclock a perfectly good processor and risk stability and wattage issues.

-- 
Stephen D King
The Kings Photography
http://www.thekingsphotography.com



[#] Mon Aug 24 2009 22:01:36 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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Yeah, I don't get the whole voltage thing. You might have to explaine it to me. I don't plan on overclocking (I got one of the 9650s :-) but I've heard noises about sometimes you have to screw with them anyway.

[#] Tue Aug 25 2009 00:33:54 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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Mon Aug 24 2009 10:01:36 PM EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored
Yeah, I don't get the whole voltage thing. You might have to explaine it to me. I don't plan on overclocking (I got one of the 9650s :-) but I've heard noises about sometimes you have to screw with them anyway.

voltage is what dictates its wattage consumption. higher voltage = higher clock speed... after about a 5%-10% increase it gets extremely dangerous... i dont recommend going over 3% increase (depnding on your processor/mobo combo) unless you are extremely knowledgable about your processor...

as i said... i only have an overall increase of about 2-4% depending on what i need to be done... still it's not much of a difference. i suggest NOT overclocking anything for safety's sake.. i know people that have melted motherboards because they typed the wrong value into the voltage setting... or the multiplier... -.- it can get messy even with human error...

-- 
Stephen D King
The Kings Photography
http://www.thekingsphotography.com
"When the rich wage war,
it's the poor that die..."
- Linkin Park "Hands Held High"



[#] Tue Aug 25 2009 07:24:34 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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yea
I think I'll stick with my already crazy fast machine.

[#] Tue Aug 25 2009 10:55:36 EDT from Stefan @ Uncensored

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Mon Aug 24 2009 09:47:17 AM EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored
I don't know if this is how it works anymore but in the good old days, intel would build a chip to the best specifications that it could, then test it. If it tested reliably at a 3ghz chip, it was sold as a 3ghz chip.
I think that's not true anymore. It depends on the market and the quality of the chip processing. As an example: AMD's X3 is a X4 chip with a broken core and is extremly popular. But they don't have enough chips with a broken core (and they don't produce chips with only three cores), so they started to deactivate one core on a X4 and sell it as a X3 instead, because that is what the market demands. And it is the same with the chip's frequency: If the chip processing is good and they can produce a lot of fast chips then they will cut the frequency rate with a fixed multiplicator.

 



[#] Tue Aug 25 2009 11:22:40 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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At least they don't sell CPU's like they sell consumer Internet bandwidth: "supports speeds UP TO 2.4 GHz"

[#] Tue Aug 25 2009 12:46:41 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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So in fact overclocking may be a reasonable endeavour and it's just pot luck whether you got a good crippled chip or if you have an actual broken one...

[#] Tue Aug 25 2009 13:00:46 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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Tue Aug 25 2009 12:46:41 PM EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored
So in fact overclocking may be a reasonable endeavour and it's just pot luck whether you got a good crippled chip or if you have an actual broken one...

Exactly.

My chip has been sucessfully pushed from 2.4ghz to 2.7ghz without any heat or stability issues. I actually fear pushing it past 2.7ghz because of my older mobo. I tried to OC my wife's older AMD and it crashed horribly.. at least I saved the chip and is till in "working" condition... It's really just the luck of the draw.

-- 
Stephen D King
The Kings Photography
http://www.thekingsphotography.com
"When the rich wage war,
it's the poor that die..."
- Linkin Park "Hands Held High"



[#] Tue Aug 25 2009 19:27:07 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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A lot of what's being said about overclocking in this thread is just wrong.


1) Core 2 Duo is the king of overclocking, and it has nothing to do with how processors test. Remember: in the Pentium IV days, processors were optimized to run within a 130 watt thermal envelope. Intel realized this was wrongheaded when they moved to the Core 2 architecture, as has been discussed ad nauseum all over the internet. So they targeted a 65W thermal envelope for Core 2 Duo, for a couple different reasons. First, because they could: P4 was 3-issue, C2 is 4-issue and has lots of power gating and is more efficient in many other ways; they could build a 65W processor that outperformed the previous generation 130W processors. But the thermal headroom is still there. When people started building C2D systems, they kept putting the old 130W heatsink designs on them. The chips themselves were built using a lot of process technology knowledge that was gained during Intel's struggles with the high frequencies and high clock speeds of the P4. So they have headroom to be pushed. Secondly, the 65W envelope that was chosen for the C2D was somewhat artificial. It came about because C2D was always intended to be half of a quad-core solution, whicn would bring the total right back up to 130 again. So again, these C2D's are being somewhat artificially limited. Because Intel is not saying, ok we're not going to ship this chip if it doesn't work reliably at x MHz. They are saying, we're going to validate it at x MHz and y voltage, in order to fit within 65W and optimize the lifespan of the part. And if it needs more voltage to run at that speed, then they'll bin it lower. But that doesn't mean it won't work just fine with a little more voltage.

2) Nehalem doesn't really need those 3 channels of memory. The third channel only buys you between 1 and 5 percent on typical desktop apps including 3D gaming. Maybe it's useful for a database server. Wait for the P55 chipset which will only have 2 channels.


3) A lot of people are having pretty good overclocking results without even raising voltage, on the newer Intel chips, assuming a good cooling solution.

[#] Tue Aug 25 2009 23:25:19 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I'm interested in hearing more people's answers to the "Is it worth it?" question.

[#] Tue Aug 25 2009 23:31:57 EDT from Harbard @ Uncensored

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It is not worth it....unless you like messing around with things.  I know guys that put $5000 worth of accessories on a $2000 car...is it worth it?  You can take a $600 1911 and do several thousand dollars worth of modifications to make it shoot better....if that makes you happy why not?  I have tried some overclocking and found it's more trouble than it's worth.  The only real succes I've had was with my video card.  Trying to over cl,ock your CPU requires very careful component selection to begin with.  It will shorten the life of you computer also.  I build a new computer every other year so that wouldn't matter.  I just always make sure I have one box that just works.



[#] Wed Aug 26 2009 07:45:23 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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LoanShark - Thanks for the info, I was never aware of all that..

All I know is my experience with my Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz. Mine required a slight voltage boost to get it to OC correctly and once I got all of the settings right I only achieved 2.7GHz. I know OC is hardware dependant and it's easier to OC your graphics card than your CPU but I just wanted to see what kind of speeds I could get with my combo. I've only commented on my experience with my processor, none other.

Next time I try to OC something i'll look more carefully at what's being said about my chip.

>.<
---- 
Stephen D King
The Kings Photography
http://www.thekingsphotography.com



[#] Wed Aug 26 2009 08:06:49 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I guess things arent like the good old days.

[#] Wed Aug 26 2009 08:13:23 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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okay, so I haven't built a machine in a long time.
half the parts showed up yestrday.
the motheboard has 3 fan jacks on it.
one for cpu two for system
what am I supposed to hook the system fans up to.
As in where do I put them, are they supposed to be big 5 inch case fans or do they sit on top of the heatsinks on the baord of which there is only one.

and being as im so out of it.
what is north side south side front side bus, where are they, do they get hot and require separate cooling?

[#] Wed Aug 26 2009 09:21:35 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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Wed Aug 26 2009 08:13:23 AM EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored
okay, so I haven't built a machine in a long time.
half the parts showed up yestrday.
the motheboard has 3 fan jacks on it.
one for cpu two for system
what am I supposed to hook the system fans up to.
As in where do I put them, are they supposed to be big 5 inch case fans or do they sit on top of the heatsinks on the baord of which there is only one.

and being as im so out of it.
what is north side south side front side bus, where are they, do they get hot and require separate cooling?


North Bridge is what talks to your memory (assuming you dont have tri-channel), the ram itself might need cooling if it's high-performance but it's not required. Most likely, the other 2 connections are case fans. What model motherboard is it?

-- 
Stephen D King
The Kings Photography
http://www.thekingsphotography.com
"When the rich wage war,
it's the poor that die..."
- Linkin Park "Hands Held High"



[#] Wed Aug 26 2009 10:32:52 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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It is not worth it....unless you like messing around with things.  I know


Hack value is a totally legitimate reason, even if a bit impractical.

[#] Wed Aug 26 2009 10:33:08 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I guess things arent like the good old days.

Well, you know what they say -- the good old days aren't what they used to be.

[#] Wed Aug 26 2009 14:33:51 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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p45 neo3 or p43 neo3 Not sure which
Does that mean anything to you?

[#] Wed Aug 26 2009 15:08:47 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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Wed Aug 26 2009 02:33:51 PM EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored
p45 neo3 or p43 neo3 Not sure which
Does that mean anything to you?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130180

That one??

-- 
Stephen D King
The Kings Photography
http://www.thekingsphotography.com
"When the rich wage war,
it's the poor that die..."
- Linkin Park "Hands Held High"



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