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[#] Fri Jan 08 2010 04:41:23 EST from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Do Jan 07 2010 23:39:08 EST von IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
There can't possibly be a use case that can't be implemented without
closures simply because all the languages that implement closures
compile down to assembly, and as afar as I know there ain't no
processor that nativly supports closures in its instruction set.

Wasn't there some sort of Java-native processor that Sun was playing with when Java first came out?

I think that was a marketing buzz.

You can actualy purchase a "java extension" for a Z, but that actualy an x86 board.



[#] Fri Jan 08 2010 09:37:08 EST from dothebart @ Uncensored

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http://hyperrealm.com/main.php?s=cbase

interesting libs, maybe one could have a look at these...



[#] Sat Jan 09 2010 17:13:56 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Wasn't there some sort of Java-native processor that Sun was playing

with when Java first came out?

Yeah, now that you mention it I remember the "Java chip." Probably a bad idea since they keep making extensions to the virtual machine, besides the fact that a special purpose processor could never compete with Intel...

[#] Sat Jan 09 2010 22:09:56 EST from Ford II @ Uncensored

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Patriot science, I invested heavily in them because of that.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-17834347.html

As it turned it, it went nowhere, and patriot science turned into a patent holding company.

[#] Sat Jan 09 2010 22:10:14 EST from Ford II @ Uncensored

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It even had a cool name, the shboom chip.

[#] Sat Jan 09 2010 23:05:02 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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"Where's the shboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering shboom!"

[#] Mon Jan 11 2010 15:45:15 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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[#] Mon Jan 11 2010 16:09:39 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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"Overall, the OMG.s technology adoption process must be seen as the core
reason for CORBA.s decline. The process encourages design by committee
and political maneuvering to the point where it is difficult to achieve
technical mediocrity, let alone technical excellence."

Bwaha!

[#] Mon Jan 11 2010 16:56:59 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Heh. The other problem with design-by-committee is that you end up with soooooo much complexity. Simple designs are easy to implement, so they tend to *get* implemented.

[#] Mon Jan 11 2010 18:06:20 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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http://hessian.caucho.com/doc/metaprotocol-taxonomy.xtp

Metaprotocol taxonomy; or, why SOAP is going the way of CORBA.

[#] Mon Jan 11 2010 18:41:31 EST from dothebart @ Uncensored

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well, but I guess corba winns in the ratio payload/protocol overhead by magnitude of 10

Its only overhead is, that it will not use sizes that don't snap on a 4 byte grid,

while soap has

* http

* xml (with character escaping)

* xml xml

* xmlxmlxml

Corba has some tradeofs though:

* its grammer (IDL) isn't published like the soap grammer (WSDL)  So a subscriber can't learn at runtime what the other side is talking (since its usaly used in compiled languages, anybody cares anyway)
* its not easy possible to combine different corba implementations

* while an implementation can easily surpass the 90%, reaching 100 is next to impossible ;-)

though coupling several components via corba might give you a useable system, which could still become reasonable fast for bigger applications
but, using it in GNOME as desktop environment was probably not that a smart idea. Thank god they didn't have soap back then ;-) or... maybe KDE would be the only option today then.


[#] Mon Jan 11 2010 18:55:17 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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unless I'm very much mistaken, you can't get extensibility in WSDL without explicitly declaring ws:any so the runtime availability of the WSDL sort of seems like a moot point (you're generating stubs anyway so why do runtimes require the WSDL?)

Also, did you look at the protocol overhead benchmarks (link posted above) for Hessian?

[#] Tue Jan 12 2010 08:08:45 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Metaprotocol taxonomy; or, why SOAP is going the way of CORBA.

Interesting. I'm going to have to take some time and read that one slowly.
I think I could learn a few things from it. :)

I must admit that so far, all of my metaprotocol choices have been made solely based on who or what I need to interoperate with. :(

[#] Tue Jan 12 2010 10:06:26 EST from dothebart @ Uncensored

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IG, since the number of people adding is rather limited over here, and there is one person in charge (you) the most important errors are not being made ;-)

Di Jan 12 2010 08:08:45 EST von IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
Metaprotocol taxonomy; or, why SOAP is going the way of CORBA.

Interesting. I'm going to have to take some time and read that one slowly. I think I could learn a few things from it. :)

I must admit that so far, all of my metaprotocol choices have been made solely based on who or what I need to interoperate with. :(

 



[#] Tue Jan 12 2010 12:00:36 EST from Ford II @ Uncensored

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Also, did you look at the protocol overhead benchmarks (link posted

above) for Hessian?

I LIKE Hessian, but I'm sure you knew I'd say that.
I knew soap sucked from the first day I saw it, it's nice to see somebody make a pretty web page explaining why.

[#] Tue Jan 12 2010 12:01:00 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Also, did you look at the protocol overhead benchmarks (link posted

above) for Hessian?

I hadn't noticed that this paper was written by someone involved in the development of a metaprotocol. I'll keep that in mind as I read it.

There's one other metaprotocol worth mentioning: BEEP. It's sooooooo awful.
I'm glad that CAP (which was built over BEEP) failed, because that would have been miserable to try to build.

[#] Tue Jan 12 2010 15:13:50 EST from Ford II @ Uncensored

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http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1142044

I finally got through this, and it makes a fun read. I never knew anybody who thought corba was good. And now I know why.

His thoughts at the end though are flawed...


"No standard should be approved without having been used to implement a few projects of realistic complexity"

Sounds very card-horsey.

After this has become a defacto standard (no matter how shitty it is) we'll put our stamp of approval on it, calling it a standard.
Pure genius. Why have a standards body at all? When the market has it all worked out, what value does a standards body add?

I can imagine all the academic big headed buffoons that get onto these standards panels. There's one or two real smart people who are too unwise to leave because they'd hate to see their babies butchered, but the restof them are politically maneuvering power hungry loud mouths that never actually contribute anything to the software society as a whole.
I think any one of us is a more valuable standards body member simply because we actually write software and know what's good and what to stay away from. Even if a little. And we might actually hold our beliefs above customer desires.

Of course that just then falls into the "the superior technology doesn't win just because it is the superior technology" bucket.

[#] Tue Jan 12 2010 15:14:11 EST from Ford II @ Uncensored

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That should be cart-horsey.

[#] Tue Jan 12 2010 16:11:19 EST from dothebart @ Uncensored

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oh, and... while having written corba books, the author now works for a company who does its own middleware, which is available as GPL or proprietary. UPS? what a coincidence.



[#] Tue Jan 12 2010 22:53:37 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I LIKE Hessian, but I'm sure you knew I'd say that.

*grin*

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