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[#] Sun Sep 27 2009 17:16:02 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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there's very little reason for python to be anal about indentation when we have lots of auto-indentation tools in existence. the drawbacks simply outweight the benefits.

[#] Mon Sep 28 2009 09:45:31 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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"Yo dawg, I heard you like indentation so I ran 'gnu indent' on all your Python code..."

[#] Thu Oct 01 2009 18:58:15 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Oct 1 2009 6:21pm from LoanShark
Pete wrote a beautifully perfect pop server in C++. It was as near to
perfect as you're going to get. he implemented the protocol in an
abstract base class and subclassed an implementation for our data
store.
The only thing imperfect about it came from me: I had to butcher the
separateness between parent and child to handle some really goofy
failure-recovery mode.

Sounds like a case for composing objects rather than inheriting objects. (Which is often good advice.)

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 12:31:50 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I'm not up on the fancy lingo. This means...?

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 12:59:14 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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A has a B instead of A extends B.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 14:06:36 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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ahh right. that.
They have names for everything nowadays.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 14:06:58 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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When I was your age, we didn't extend anything, we inhereted godammit.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 14:35:10 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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well, anyway, if the objects had been linked instead of inherited, you could have easily plugged pete's backend into a pop4 frontend. but noooooo...

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 14:49:11 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Yeah, I hadn't heard of 'extend' in place of 'inherit' either. That's all kinds of new-fangled.

I guess it makes sense, but it's slightly annoying. How many standard terms for basic concepts must I remember now?

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 15:17:06 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Yeah, I hadn't heard of 'extend' in place of 'inherit' either. That's

all kinds of new-fangled.

You're out of date.. It's the reserved word for 'inherits from' in Java (like ':' in C++). Java is not exactly "new" anymore. ;)

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 15:17:47 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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And of course, it's since been borrowed by PHP and many other languages that implement Java-esque class syntax.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 15:30:15 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Heh... again, though, "How many standard terms for basic concepts must I remember now?"

I remember when this stuff was really, really fresh. The idea of 'inherit', 'extend', and even 'kind of relationship' has been around a long time, but everyone seems to be trying to find some hip, special, froody word to describe it. And as a consequence, it seems that you have to be very dynamic in your thinking when you start talking about this stuff with anyone, as you never know when someone will start referring to the idea with the term 'pineapple' or 'smegbomb'.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 15:36:55 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Heh... the ISO-approved nomenclature for the 'is kind of' relationship. Followed by the ISO-approved nomenclature for the 'has some of' relationship.

Followed by ESR complaining bitterly that fucking Linux doesn't have a 'GNU' in front of it. Or whoever it is that makes that complaint regularly.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 15:38:52 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Oops, I left ANSI out of that. I'm sure they're feeling lonely, and want a piece of ISO.

Fuck it, let's just blame OOPSLA, hunt down Booch (and the rest of that lot) so we can beat them into standardizing the langauge for all this shit.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 15:39:27 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Heh... 'lan-gauge'... that's an amusing misspelling. Particularly in this room.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 16:17:22 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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actually, besides from "inherit" and "extend", there is also "base class", "superclass", "sub class", and "derived class." The terminology for this has NEVER been clean or standardized or whatever. It's only you C++ guys who thought that it was.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 17:06:15 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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No, actually, I never thought it was standardized at all. I just kind of think it needs to be done.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 17:28:57 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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Yeah, I hadn't heard of 'extend' in place of 'inherit' either. That's

all kinds of new-fangled.

It's java. Probably from somewhere else earlier though.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 17:32:19 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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have to be very dynamic in your thinking when you start talking about

this stuff with anyone, as you never know when someone will start
referring to the idea with the term 'pineapple' or 'smegbomb'.

I find that all the time nowadays. People always using buzzwords and I feel dumb because I'm so out of the loop, then I ask what that means, then they explain it, and I say "Oh, in the good old days we called that a cell modem."


I've stopped thinking I was stupid and out of the loop and have accepted that people who use all the new buzzwords aren't as cool as me because they weren't there when we didn't have a cool buzzword for it.

Consider the above example. In C++ it was : now it's called extends.
You didn't even refer to the concept, you just said "I wrote a subclass of blah" you didn't say "I extended blah."

It's all silly.

Over and over again in my life I find myself in that situation and it turns out I either know or have at least rubbed elbows with whatever concept people are trying to make you feel stupid about.

[#] Fri Oct 02 2009 17:33:32 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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for this has NEVER been clean or standardized or whatever. It's only
you C++ guys who thought that it was.

Because back then, it was, there was only one place it was used (well, smalltalk...) but still...

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