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[#] Sun Jun 22 2014 19:40:51 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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I didn't really have definite views on socialized medicine until I moved to Israel, and saw how well it works when done right. 

A few caveats: 
1. Medical school is much cheaper here (US$3-4K/year for 7 years)
2. Doctors get paid much less, especially in the early years.
3. There are 4 competing "health funds" all of which are required to provide a certain level of service, and compete for customers by improving on that level of service. (plus each health fund offers supplemental insurance for fairly reasonable prices - $10-$20/month per person)
4. There is a thriving private medical sector, some of which is covered by supplemental insurance - meaning that when the wait for a "public" ophthalmologist was two months (and my son's condition's surgery success rate goes down drastically after the age of 3 months, so we didn't have the time to wait), I was able to get a private appointment within 10 days with the top guy, shell out US$200, and then get back US$150 of it later.  (the fact that the surgery determined that it was a hopeless case... well, that's another story).

I do, however, pay completely privately for my pain specialist, because he offers a treatment that nobody "in network" offers, and it's pretty much the only treatment that is safe long-term and actually works for me.

(Painkillers work, but you can't take 'em forever, and the other fibromyalgia 'on-label' treatments simply didn't work for me, though one of them made me gain 20 lbs very quickly... which would be great if I had started out underweight, I guess)

Not everything is better here, but in the past few weeks, I've been to a number of appointments where 3 or more top doctors consulted on my case at the same time, and I've paid NOTHING out of pocket. (last week, the head of ultrasound, the head of pediatric nephrology, and three other doctors were present for an ultrasound to confirm the diagnosis for my baby - since the kidney condition presents in an extremely unusual way.)

 



[#] Thu Jun 26 2014 17:44:19 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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I am also for socialized health insurance, works well enough here. The only problem is: people visit doctors too often, since they do not have to pay for each visit. Without socialized health, I would be paying for my last treatment in a  hospital for the rest of my life and would probably spend that rest brain damaged. It is kind of a blessing not to worry about the financial risk of getting medical aid.

We pay about 15% of our income for the insurance, people earning less than 840€ all spend about 150€ and if you earn more than 3400€ or so, you still pay as if you earn "only" 3400€. There is also coverage for the case when you need caring due to old age, etc. 15% sounds a lot, but when you know that they simply wont stop to treat you just because you run out of money, it gives you a perspective when you need one badly.



[#] Thu Jun 26 2014 18:10:04 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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1. Medical school is much cheaper here (US$3-4K/year for 7 years)

I don't get it. A chimp could pay his way through med school, but would he learn anything because that money doesn't support the school's budget. Without subsidies.

[#] Thu Jun 26 2014 18:17:59 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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The American system unfortunately makes it so that people who can't pay frequently need to use emergency rooms instead of regular doctors, which ends up costing those who can pay lots more.

Here, for example, you pay relatively little to see a regular doctor in his office ($3-4 quarterly), $25 for an urgent-care visit (unless you've broken a bone or similar), and around $200 for an ER visit  (unless you have one of a list of recognized conditions, a referral from your doctor, or something serious enough to get you admitted.)

Basically, the fees involved make people use the minimal care first. 

 



[#] Mon Jun 30 2014 15:48:17 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The American system unfortunately makes it so that people who can't
pay frequently need to use emergency rooms instead of regular
doctors, which ends up costing those who can pay lots more.

The American system makes it so that people who can't pay are encouraged to STIFF THE HOSPITAL FOR THE BILL.

I can fix the problem in one step.

The vast majority of people using the emergency room as a free primary care clinic are illegal immigrants. All we have to do is fix their little ailment and then immediately drop them back into whatever country they illegally came here from, immediately, every single time, no questions asked.

The influx of freeloaders into emergency rooms would immediately stop.

[#] Mon Jun 30 2014 16:18:18 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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And those legit American citizens should continue using the ER instead of proper primary care?



[#] Mon Jun 30 2014 16:20:03 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Some of those legit American citizens could find themselves booted out of the country if they can't prove they belong. This could potentially help reduce the overuse of hospitals in general.

[#] Mon Jun 30 2014 19:51:04 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Why not put them to death as long as they are in the ER? Should be far cheaper, dead bodies could be sent home via simple cargo flights, can stack way more of them into one plane.



[#] Tue Jul 01 2014 10:33:20 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Ah, need refrigerated planes to keep the stench down.

[#] Tue Jul 01 2014 18:44:40 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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Thu Jun 26 2014 18:10:04 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored
1. Medical school is much cheaper here (US$3-4K/year for 7 years)

I don't get it. A chimp could pay his way through med school, but would he learn anything because that money doesn't support the school's budget. Without subsidies.

Yes - highly subsidized by government. And yes, Israel has excellent doctors graduating from their medical schools.

The thing is that it's cheaper to make medical school subsidized than it is to have to pay doctors enough to pay off absurd debts.

I was talking to a friend who literally couldn't accept a starting position at less than $60K because she has $250K of student loans, and even living as frugally as possible, couldn't even dent the interest with less. 

In Israel, the doctors graduate with no debt at all, and work for peanuts until they prove themselves.

 



[#] Wed Jul 02 2014 13:11:14 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I think the people are getting fed up with illegal immigrants:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/san-diego-suburb-protests-influx-ille gal-immigrants-article-1.1852056

[#] Wed Jul 02 2014 13:57:04 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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that may be objectively untrue,

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/483067065168060416?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=JonMLevine&utm_content=483075085817769986

[#] Wed Jul 02 2014 13:57:58 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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(though the question was worded "immigrants" rather than "illegal immigrants", the change in public opinion is striking)

[#] Wed Jul 02 2014 14:59:25 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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That's a huge distinction. Illegal immigrants are viewed as a drain on society (rightly or wrongly). Immigrants are not, as they contribute back to society in many ways, and most people have relatively near relatives who themselves are immigrants (grandfather, great grandmother, or the like).

[#] Wed Jul 02 2014 15:50:58 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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A recent poll proved that polls in general, especially on-line polls are highly accurate means of public
opinion.

[#] Wed Jul 02 2014 16:12:24 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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And not-so-recent poll was used to beat the daylights out of someone, leading to riots in the street.

[#] Thu Jul 03 2014 14:18:55 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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We are a nation made up overwhelmingly of immigrants. No one is faulting the people who want to come here to be part of our society and do it the legal way. What we have a problem with is people crossing the border immediately, consuming large amounts of expensive subsidies, and eventually voting for people who will hand out more and more of those subsidies.

The only benefit we should be paying out to these people is a one-way ticket back to wherever they came from.

[#] Thu Jul 03 2014 14:49:02 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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The Cloward–Piven strategy in action.

[#] Sat Jul 05 2014 13:59:03 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Jul 5 2014 10:18am from dothebart @uncnsrd (Uncensored) in Politics & Propaganda>

http://mic.com/articles/92777/why-cops-should-wear-cameras-everywhere-

they-go-in-one-image

do cams make humans better humans?


Same phenomenon that used to happen 'back in the day' when the Nun would say "Behave yourselves - Jesus is watching!"

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