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[#] Tue Oct 22 2013 23:52:15 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Tue Oct 22 2013 09:30:21 PM EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

You being a good person is an issue never in doubt as far as I am concerned.

Getting involved in the politics game is never without its downside, but in almost every circumstance is a Good Thing, particularly if you are Good People.

There are not enough Good People in politics, particularly these days. Jump back in - we need more folk like you.



I agree as well.  I think even allowing people who have learned along the way to become "Good People" should not be excluded, but I think it would not be possible for them to enter politics due to mud slinging that invariably ensues during a campaign.



[#] Wed Oct 23 2013 00:55:55 EDT from DemonStalker @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Mud slinging is - contrary to what many may think - neither something "new" to American politics, nor is today's mud slinging anywhere *near* the most vitriolic.

Go look at some of the pre-Civil-War presidential campaigns - and I don't mean the 1850s. Go look at the first six campaigns after "W" left office (the first "W" - George Washington).

Their were even duels - with pistols - resulting in dead people.

And then there was America's Favorite Perennial Candidate Who Never Won - William Jennings Bryan himself. From the "Cross of Gold" to the Scopes Monkey Trial, quite possibly one of *the* most colorful of all US politicians. One of the few about whom it genuinely can be said that he was a "legend in his own time."

By those standards, the backbiting and petty nonsense of today's political arena is but a shadow, and an amateurish imitation.

[#] Wed Oct 23 2013 19:27:34 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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I was present once at an evening class at our church where it was openly
questioned whether Christian universities should even have law programs,
given the inherent moral decrepitude of that field of study.

I couldn't believe that people were seriously discussing that--as though
entirely abandoning the field of law to "the ungodly" would have a
positive result. Where do lawMAKERs come from? Frequently, the field
of law.

Law is much the same as politics and warfare. The people who do it
badly may get the press, but it is rather urgent that good people engage
and do the best they can to raise the bar.

[#] Wed Oct 23 2013 23:59:57 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Good points DemonStalker.  If I only had the guts, or the public speaking skills, I would consider it :-)



[#] Thu Oct 24 2013 04:02:10 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Oct 23 2013 8:59pm from ax25 @uncnsrd (Uncensored) in Politics & Propaganda>

Good points DemonStalker.  If I only had the guts, or the public
speaking skills, I would consider it :-)


You do not need public speaking skills to be successful at politics and to contribute meaningful work to the Body Politic.

You need integrity and courage.

The rest will follow automatically.

[#] Thu Oct 24 2013 14:53:06 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Then why are those with integrity and courage constantly being shoved aside by douchebags and bullies?

[#] Thu Oct 24 2013 16:22:17 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Thu Oct 24 2013 11:53:06 PDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
Then why are those with integrity and courage constantly being shoved aside by douchebags and bullies?

The answer is rather obvious.

It is because "those with integrity and courage" are, especially in the sample-space known in the vernacular as the "polital arena" vastly outnumbered by the segment of the population best described as assholes.

While I am sure that the reason is that Good People simply choose to not besmirch themselves by associating with assholes, I still wish it would be otherwise. The only way to change this absolutely unacceptable status quo is to have a lot of Good People jump into the political arena - to the point where the Good People vastly outnumber the assholes.

This labels me as what most would call a "hopeless optimist."

I rather like to think of it as one of my typically Leibowitzian "wir marschieren weiter wenn alles in scherben faellt" quirks.



[#] Thu Oct 24 2013 22:51:53 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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If I imagine condominium politics to relate to federal politics, there are a few homeowners who want to make a mark in the community, so they can say that they did such-and-so for the community. Whether or not it is good for the community is irrelevant.

There are other people who want to alter the rules or influence the board to do things that would provide them a benefit, regardless of whether it's actually in the best interest of the community.

And there are some people who are attracted to power, and want that power for themselves. They don't really care about the community, either, and lack the moral compass to gain their position nicely. Many of these people are actually sociopaths, but quite charming despite their complete disregard for others (because they have learned how to manipulate people with that charm).

As for decent people who ever get into this, it wears on you. It isn't something you can maintain for too long before you just plain wear out. As such, when you see a politician who has been at it for over 10 years, you are probably looking at someone who is not a nice person.
Not necessarily because the politics turned the person this way, but because he didn't wear down, so he is likely one of the bad people.

[#] Thu Oct 24 2013 23:37:25 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Not necessarily because the politics turned the person this way, but

because he didn't wear down, so he is likely one of the bad people.



I beg to disagree. It is not necessarily "likely" that such a person is one of the bad people.

It could very well be that the person simply enjoys the "rough and tumble" give and take of real-life politics. Such people are the ones who were very good in formal debate in high school and college, and perhaps beyond. Many such folk go on to be attorneys - and in the civil arena end up being trial lawyers, and very good at their craft.

And some end up in politics. As long as they keep their moral compass in good running order such folks end up doing worlds of good while ascending the political "ladder." Abraham Lincoln comes to mind; as does Harry Truman and Ronald Reagan.

Unfortunately, today's
crop of political "leaders" does little, if anything, to either inspire or impress me.

[#] Fri Oct 25 2013 00:04:21 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Thu Oct 24 2013 11:37:25 PM EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS
Not necessarily because the politics turned the person this way, but

because he didn't wear down, so he is likely one of the bad people.



I beg to disagree. It is not necessarily "likely" that such a person is one of the bad people.

It could very well be that the person simply enjoys the "rough and tumble" give and take of real-life politics. Such people are the ones who were very good in formal debate in high school and college, and perhaps beyond. Many such folk go on to be attorneys - and in the civil arena end up being trial lawyers, and very good at their craft.

And some end up in politics. As long as they keep their moral compass in good running order such folks end up doing worlds of good while ascending the political "ladder." Abraham Lincoln comes to mind; as does Harry Truman and Ronald Reagan.

Unfortunately, today's
crop of political "leaders" does little, if anything, to either inspire or impress me.

Unfortunately, it takes a body of work to figure out if they are the former or the later sort of person, unless you know them well, or know someone who knows them (and you yourself have well formed friend groups)...

Politics are best handled on a local level (Libertarian at heart).  I still think Ross Perot had a good idea of taking the decisions and advancing them to the (at the time 20th century) level of technology, and letting the populace vote on larger issues.  We were not ignorant farmers anymore.  We might be more like them now, but we were not as much back then I think.



[#] Fri Oct 25 2013 08:13:26 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Well, for that idea to work, you have to have journalism that isn't required to be infotainment. It has to actually inform, not entertain. And it can't be from one source, but from several sources, since each source will have its own bias.

We don't have that anymore. And we're the worse for it.

[#] Fri Oct 25 2013 11:04:17 EDT from Ladyhawke @ Uncensored

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Fri Oct 25 2013 08:13:26 AM EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

Well, for that idea to work, you have to have journalism that isn't required to be infotainment. It has to actually inform, not entertain. And it can't be from one source, but from several sources, since each source will have its own bias.

We don't have that anymore. And we're the worse for it.

This.



[#] Wed Oct 30 2013 17:25:47 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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[#] Sun Nov 03 2013 11:53:39 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Yikes. Government contractors getting paid by KLOC, most likely ... and as tends to happen with government contractors, we once again have a million dollar toilet that can't even flush. (And the toilet is a good analogy in many other ways, of course: fill in your own "full of shit" pun here.)

[#] Sun Nov 03 2013 20:21:27 EST from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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By way of comparison....

Back in 2008 me and a friend decided to establish a NetK2NE (ISP) presence out here in California.

We decided to create two new subsidiaries - ChicoConnect and Forest Ranch Internet, and set up domains for each.

We wanted a web site for prospective customers where they would:

1) input their name and address, specifically to include street address (physical) and ZIP-code.
2) from that data, we would then bring the prospective customer to a page where all available speeds for DSL service would be presented, along with the cost for each (monthly, quarterly, or full year options), with a check box next to each option.
3) there was a "continue" button at the bottom of the page.
4) next, the prospective customer would be presented with an Order Confirmation page where we collected credit card info or "Pay using PAYPAL" as an option.
5) the customer would fill in the credit card info OR select Paypal.
6) if PAYPAL they would enter their Paypal email address and a second window would open onto their PAYPAL account for them to enter their PAYPAL password and proceed through Paypal's process to complete payment.
7) if they were using their own card, it would simply go to our merchant account (also through Paypal) and complete the payment process.
8) the customer would then get a Payment Confirmation page, with an order number, an installation date, and complete contact information for our office.

Sound familiar? Yup. Just like the ObamaScare "website" should work.

Total man hours to build our site: roughly 20
Testing time: about 3 days
Result: worked flawlessly from "day one."

The difference? We knew what we were doing, how to do it, and wrote the entire site using RAW HTML CODE (no bloat-ridden "code generators") with CGI-BIN where appropriate using mostly PERL on the linux back-end.

The website interfaced with the appropriate DSL wholesale vendor(s) depending on the customer ZIP-code.

Bada-Bing! Done!!
What's so hard???!!!???

[#] Mon Nov 04 2013 13:43:48 EST from zooer @ Uncensored

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You were not trying to collapes the system and screw people over. That is the difference. You care, the
government doesn't.

[#] Fri Nov 08 2013 10:32:18 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I am dreading the day coming in the next couple of weeks when I hear about just how much my plan's costs are increasing next year. Health care was expensive already; it's going to be even more expensive now that it's free.

[#] Fri Nov 08 2013 11:10:24 EST from zooer @ Uncensored

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Hey, my plan was terminated. I know several people's plans that were terminated. I should be glad, on the new
plan gynecological exams are included... which would be neato if I had a vagina.

[#] Fri Nov 08 2013 12:36:15 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Perhaps the new plan comes with a vagina as well. Or perhaps Sandra Slut Fluke will let you use hers.

[#] Fri Nov 08 2013 15:12:46 EST from zooer @ Uncensored

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