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[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 07:32:12 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Wed Oct 02 2013 07:30:30 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored
Wed Oct 02 2013 00:15:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
The same type of thing was going on over here a couple of weeks ago. A simply massive twitter. I broke it up with a loud blast on a vuvuzela. Evidently the birds didn't want to play soccer.

from a time before vuvuzelas were associated with soccer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe-6g3OcZlI

(german, but such a slapstick nonsense, you'll get it without understanding whats spoken)

oh, only half the fun; this is the full thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhkRM1Pa1HA



[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 08:14:04 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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My father purchased me one and I would bring it to the hockey games.

The people with their air horns annoyed people more.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 10:14:02 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I'm actually somewhat impressed that Obama signed something to allow our folks in uniform to continue to get paid while this is happening. It'd really suck to get stuck out in a foreign country per duty, only to find yourself stranded there.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 10:55:43 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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Oct 2 2013 10:14am from fleeb @uncnsrd

I'm actually somewhat impressed that Obama signed something to allow

our folks in uniform to continue to get paid while this is happening.

It'd really suck to get stuck out in a foreign country per duty, only

to find yourself stranded there.

Well, in fairness, they're still stranded there, but at least they're getting paid. In terms of federal spending as a whole, military salaries aren't actually THAT much and there's really no positive messaging you can put out to counter the "hanging our beloved troops out to dry" narrative that would ensue.

Veterans are a much easier demographic to go after, but while we're still in uniform, we will always get lip service support and generally get paychecks.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 11:29:22 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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I am a viciously extreme conservative. Some might say that I take it to the point of absurdity. Be that as it may, on some points I actually might seem (to my conservative friends) to be a tad liberal.

1. I firmly believe that we, as a nation and as a civilization, owe our Military Veterans a "free life" when they return from service. Free medical care is only the beginning. How about FREE COLLEGE. How about ZERO interest home loans - yes, the VA Mortgage program is generous, but not good enough. I'd also include a "one month a year payment holiday" in that, and have that "payment holiday" COUNT toward the amortization of the loan with the federal government kicking in the money for that month.

Our military personnel, at home and overseas, active duty and veterans, are among our most precious assets.

We do not do enough for them.
It may not even be *possible* to do enough for them.
How do we thank them for what they do, and for what they have too many times already done? For us here at home?

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man may lay down his life for his friends."

And what do *we* do for *them* in return?

NOT NEARLY ENOUGH.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 11:50:10 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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I don't want a "free life." I don't think that's a moral thing to wish on anyone. But it would be nice if we could honor our existing commitments, and if the cost of "free" veteran health care didn't keep going up. I know a few people who depend
on their VA benefits to pay the bills; they are a tad concerned at the moment, as these were not exempt from the furlough.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 14:12:53 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Veterans, by virtue of Service, agree with the People of the United States to serve, "even unto death" and for that, Veterans deserve EVERYTHING that can be done for them in return.

This is not, in any way, an immoral sentiment. This is not in any way demeaning or any such thing thereto related.

I say this with the full moral Teaching Authority as a consecrated Bishop in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

This is the very LEAST that we can do.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 14:45:17 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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Oct 2 2013 2:12pm from vince-q @cascade (Cascade Lodge BBS) in Politica>

Veterans, by virtue of Service, agree with the People of the United

States to serve, "even unto death" and for that, Veterans deserve
EVERYTHING that can be done for them in return.

This is not, in any way, an immoral sentiment. This is not in any way

demeaning or any such thing thereto related.

OK, you've got to be trolling me now. Military service in and of itself does not bestow any angelic qualities on the servants in question, nor does two years of generally not terribly arduous service somehow entitle people to be taken care of for life. Veterans are mostly just like other people: some are good, some are bad. Should some consideration be due? Sure. But you're talking gibberish.

I wouldn't wish a completely free ride in life on a veteran any more than I'd wish a free ride to anyone. It wouldn't do them any good, wouldn't likely make them happy, and would almost certainly decay them morally. We call children spoiled who are given everything; why would we inflict that on adults, especially as thanks for something they have done?


I don't really recognize the moral teaching authority of your church, particularly when you are spouting nonsense. I don't think you are doing it much credit.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 14:51:56 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I don't have to agree with everything a person says to recognize when somebody is just exaggerating for emphasis.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 15:01:07 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Hrm.

For those who don't already know, I served five years in the Army.

I don't think I'd go as far as vince-q unless the serviceman experienced combat. Then, yeah, I think you deserve quite a bit.

We have a lot of servicemen who just have desk jobs. Sure, they are at more of a risk than anyone else of having to experience combat. But otherwise, it's just a desk job. And some people (say, politicians) like to maneuver their children into those kinds of positions so they won't see any harm. I wouldn't want to see such a valuable thing go to people protected by cronyism.

And, no, I didn't experience combat. The closest I came to a combat situation was to sit in a secret meeting (as a military journalist, oddly) as some soldiers were told they were heading out to Nicaraugua to help train another military force on how to fight like us. Which is to say, not that close.

Otherwise, I covered stories of what was happening at Ft. Stewart, Ga, and I played euphonium for parades and concert band.

But, in reality, I don't think we even meet the minimum expectations for our troops. I wish we would even do that. But, I guess when we're constantly sending them into harm's way, people like me become the exception in the military rather than the norm.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 17:08:41 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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It does not matter if an active duty servicman is "in a combat situation" or not.

That person is under a sworn oath that, basically, means that they are subject to orders, at any time, to be in any place and, yes, to be put in iminent danger of life/limb. Period. You accept the *risk* and for that are deserving of the *reward*.

No less so than buying an option through your "friendly" stockbroker.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 17:19:42 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Writing an option if you want to get technical. I agree with about three quarters of the points being raised here... servicemen deserve a whole hell of a lot (stopping just short of meeting all their needs without requiring them to ever work again.)

The PTSD nightmares that some of them suffer from... the chemical side-effects from service in Iraq I...

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 18:54:36 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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If you're looking for argument about reforming the VA, you won't find it here. Absolutely criminal how long it takes to get in the system.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 21:00:51 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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A Weirdly Socialistic Solution to US Health Care

1. Tort Reform

Medical malpractice litigation will no longer be eligible for "contingency fees" for lawyers. Want to sue your medical practitioner? Pay your lawyer up front same as if you were going to sue your neighbor for a perceived tort. If you are truly indigent and cannot afford a lawyer, then your case will be submitted to a *county* commission composed of 2 attorneys, 2 from the medical profession, and three laymen. They will then apply the same standard used by the courts when considereing a Motion to Quash/Strike and if your complaint survives that, you will be assigned free representation.

At the end of the case, the LOSER pays ALL the legal fees for BOTH sides.

Damages will be limited to $5 million. Period.

2. Medical Insurance

All citizens will be permitted to purchase private insurance from any insurance company in any state regardless of where you live.

If you choose to not buy insurance in the private sector market, you will be allowed to buy insurance directly from MEDICARE. If you cannot afford the premium Medicare would charge, that premium would be paid for you on a need-based sliding scale. NOTE CAREFULLY: this would also include all military Veterans. It always has been my belief that Medicare functions far better than the VA medical system. Veterans would pay NOTHING for their entrance into Medicare.

This part is important: Dental and Optometric Services ***would*** ***be*** ***included***.

I have always considered the exclusion of dentistry from "major medical" insurance plans to be both ludicrous and scandalous. You hear and read all the time about how critical a healthy mouth is to the rest of your body, including specifically heart disease. And yet your "medical" insurance has never covered it - not even Medicare.

That is why I have always considered dentists' offices the moral/ethical equivalent of a whorehouse.

So,,, what'chall think?!?!????

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 21:29:26 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I agree!!! Yet I have strangely healthy teeth. In my third decade, I have had TWO cavities. If I want to unbundle dental from my medical for another decade or so, and roll my own dice, who are YOU to judge?!?!?

;)

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 21:30:22 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Err.

ONE cavity. I was thinking it was one one each side, but it was not.

Either way, so few that I have trouble even remembering.

[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 22:25:52 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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It's bad that medical insurance does not cover dental, so dentists' offices are the moral/ethical equivalent of a whorehouse? Other than operating on a cash basis, I'm not seeing how that follows at all.



[#] Wed Oct 02 2013 22:53:40 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Oct 2 2013 7:25pm from Sig @uncnsrd (Uncensored) in Politics & Propaganda>

It's bad that medical insurance does not cover dental, so dentists'
offices are the moral/ethical equivalent of a whorehouse? Other than

operating on a cash basis, I'm not seeing how that follows at all.



Dental "insurance" - at least here in California - is an absolute fraud. At best they pay roughly 40% on major procedures.

The emphasis is, and properly so, on preventive care. Cleanings, minor repairs, exams. Relatively cheap, even free. Need a root canal? Hundreds in co-pay. And the follow-up procedure (post and core, followed by crown) sets you back roughly a grand. And that is WITH insurance.

And the dentists are **very** picky on which policies they accept, each of which pays the DENTIST every MONTH even if you do NOT have anything done in that month. The insurance industry calls such plans "capitation" plans.

Yes.

Whorehouses.



[#] Thu Oct 03 2013 12:30:12 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Ah, now that I think of it, I was wrong. The closest I ever came to a combat situation was to attend a primary leadership development course in South Korea.
It was close, in that if North Korea ever decided it wanted to invade South Korea, I'm sure I wouldn't get a ticket back to my duty station (Japan)... I would have been expected to fight.

Never before had I experienced a place that felt so prepared for warfare.
It was in the air, as it were. You could feel a sort of background tension. Imagine living with that, and still making all those consumer items we like to buy from Korea. It's downright weird.

But, no, I don't think I'd want to be set for life. I don't think that would have been good for me, to be honest. You have to make a big adjustment, leaving the military and going civilian, but I'm glad I made it. The military life is kind of weird.

[#] Thu Oct 03 2013 13:15:26 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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But, no, I don't think I'd want to be set for life. I don't think
that would have been good for me, to be honest. You have to make a big

adjustment, leaving the military and going civilian, but I'm glad I
made it. The military life is kind of weird.



The idea is not to "set you up for life." Rather, the idea is to properly compensate you for your service to our country, and for the risk to life and limb that you freely assumed and to which you swore that solemn oath.

We cannot afford to compensate you with enough money at the time you are serving, so we must do it for you after your term of service ends honorably.

The way I view that is to address the issue on several fronts:

1. tuition-free attendance at any college at which you qualify for admission for five academic years (10 semesters full time) or attainment of the Baccalaureate degree, whichever happens first.

2. preferential treatment for employment in any government job (we are already doing this).

3. free medical benefits (already doing this), however NOT with the VA (which almost everyone agrees sucks) but through Medicare (which just about all recipients agree is amazingly good for a "government supported program" - at least pre-Obama"care" - time will tell on *that* thing).

4. preferential treatment on home purchase-money first mortgage for your principal (primary) residence. This can take several forms, and I've already addressed my personal favorite (please see prior post about 3 days ago).

Again, this all would need to be "fleshed out" in the form of actual legislation or modification to existing rules/regulations (whichever is required by existing law).

My "bet" is that these proposals would *not* add a significant amount to the Federal deficit - a lot of these things have positive benefit to the economy "at large" and would, through that fact, act to actually **increase** over-all federal tax revenue (without increasing *tax rates* at all!). In Government-Lingo, the CBO would "score" this favorably.

And finally, this is not a "charity" program. It is a way to adequately and properly compensate those men and women who have honorably served our nation in the military since it is not financially practical to pay them enough money while they are actually serving.

Not charity.
Justice.
Flavored with a BIG THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!

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