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[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 09:57:18 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Further, her remarks need to be taken in the context of her split with Murray Rothbard.

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 11:27:53 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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Your point being Loanshark? I already knew she didn't affiliate with the libertarian party.

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 13:14:08 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I just figured if we're gonna quote Ayn Rand, we might as well get a more complete perspective of her views.

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 13:15:17 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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For instance, did you know that she also said (I paraphrase) that smoking was good because it showed Man's domination over Nature?

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 13:21:33 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Ah. Here it is:

“I like to think of fire held in a man's hand. Fire, a dangerous force, tamed at his fingertips. I often wonder about the
hours when a man sits alone, watching the smoke of a cigarette, thinking. I wonder what great things have come from such
hours. When a man thinks, there is a spot of fire alive in his mind--and it is proper that he should have the burning point
of a cigarette as his one expression.”

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 18:07:21 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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It actually sounds very nice, aside from the whole slowly killing yourself thing.

 



[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 19:30:09 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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Well I guess that makes everything she says stupid and I should just want more government and more control over my life.
You have convinced me.

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 23:20:15 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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You don't think that Rand-bashing is ever at all appropriate?



You think that the only reason we make laws is to make more criminals?

[#] Fri Aug 09 2013 00:21:41 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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As I've mentioned before, I think Rand hit on a lot of important points but missed the big picture.

[#] Fri Aug 09 2013 04:06:13 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Thu Aug 08 2013 23:20:15 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

You don't think that Rand-bashing is ever at all appropriate?



You think that the only reason we make laws is to make more criminals?

~5% of the world population lives in the US..

~20% of all prisoners do also.

somethings wrong?



[#] Fri Aug 09 2013 10:09:04 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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A lot fewer Chinese are in jail. They just kill the criminals...

 



[#] Fri Aug 09 2013 12:34:34 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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Aug 8 2013 11:20pm from LoanShark @uncnsrd
You don't think that Rand-bashing is ever at all appropriate?


I have not problem with it, you just went full retard... you never go full retard.


You think that the only reason we make laws is to make more criminals?


I am beginning to think so, we have far too many laws. The police sure as hell can't keep track of the laws,
the citizens can't. We should be repealing laws, not creating new ones. Laws are so poorly written they are
vague.

[#] Fri Aug 09 2013 13:08:51 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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~20% of all prisoners do also.

somethings wrong?

Several somethings. Specifically:

* We subsidize and encourage single parenthood. This creates crime.

* We outlaw things that are not crime (all drug laws). This creates "crime"

[#] Fri Aug 09 2013 14:12:40 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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The part I thought was full-retard was where Rand went in and ascribed the most base motivation possible, to those people who disagree with her... just because they disagree with her. But that's just me. And I do think that full-on mockery, or just gentle ribbing, of Rand is always appropriate... she's an easy target. ;)

[#] Fri Aug 09 2013 14:15:16 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Aug 9 2013 12:21am from IGnatius T Foobar @uncnsrd
As I've mentioned before, I think Rand hit on a lot of important points

but missed the big picture.

That's an easy point to defend, considering she want so far out of her way to caricature herself - her own argument (whatever the heck it actually was) got lost.


Ironic that she blasted libetarians for "discrediting capitalism by making it look bad." She did a fine job of that, herself.

[#] Fri Aug 09 2013 14:17:33 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Also ironic are the accusations of plagiarism, which seem to be directed ain no small part at Rothbard, thinly veiled.

She stole all her ideas from Nietzsche, anyway.

[#] Fri Aug 09 2013 16:35:00 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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Oh come on, now you are just being a prick. ;)

[#] Sun Aug 11 2013 17:24:56 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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She stole all her ideas from Nietzsche, anyway.

"Ayn Rand is dead." -- Nietzsche

The difference between Randroid-objectivism and "pure" libertarianism (as opposed to the LP) is one of means vs. ends. Rand wanted the government out of the way as a means towards effecting massive greed and selfishness. Libertarianism wants the government out of the way as an end in itself.

Some critics argue that the LP libertarians just want the government out of the way so they can get stoned cheaply and in peace.

I suppose any of the above is arguable; it really isn't the government's business if one wants to selfishly amass wealth or indulge in whatever substances.
"Pure" anything tends to get lost in a flurry of nonpragmatism anyway. I suppose I'm just hoping that if we pick on Ayn Rand enough, Peter Pulse will come around here more often (although over the last couple of years he's abandoned his libertarian principles as well).

As for me, I abandoned the LP when the Tea Party movement materialized, as a *far* more pragmatic and effective means towards effecting libertarian principles than the LP ever was. Tea Party is to LP as open source was to free software: much of the same thing, but packaged in appealing pragmatism instead of a bunch of retarded whining and all-or-nothing extremism.

[#] Sun Aug 11 2013 17:58:01 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Oh come on, now you are just being a prick. ;)

Never!

[#] Sun Aug 11 2013 18:02:48 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Pulse will come around here more often (although over the last couple

of years he's abandoned his libertarian principles as well).

I'm aware of a few arguments you could make for that point.

But I'm not sure I'd go that far. He's always been a bit of a left-libertarian. He's hard to parse lately... but on the other hand, in the run-up to the last elections, he made some comments about the financial system to the effect that "us libertarians warned you a crash would happen", and "we just want a system that is more based on ethics."

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