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[#] Tue Aug 06 2013 10:48:37 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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perhaps someone can show me some data how things really improved for
the majority of a population in any western country after a change of
government from republicrats to democans or vice versa. i think we

"Since the 1990's" makes sense, because we haven't had true conservative leadership since the 1980's. We've had liberal democrats, fascist republicans, and now we have the Second Coming of Karl Marx shitting all over the white house.

One need only look at 1981-1982 to see what is really possible. Reagan turned the entire economy around in about 18 months. Instead of blaming his predecessor for everything, he enacted policies that made sense for everyone.

10.8% unemployment at the start of Reagan's first term -- 16 months later it was 7.8%

Compare with 9.5% unemployment at the start of Osama's first term -- 16 months later it was 9.6%

(source: US Department of Labor; Bureau of Labor Statistics)

Let's face it: we need *true* conservative leadership, not RINO's. Voters must simply choose any candidate endorsed by the Tea Party movement, and everything will get better. Guaranteed.

[#] Tue Aug 06 2013 13:51:18 EDT from Ladyhawke @ Uncensored

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[#] Tue Aug 06 2013 17:21:47 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Tue Aug 06 2013 10:48:37 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
perhaps someone can show me some data how things really improved for
the majority of a population in any western country after a change of
government from republicrats to democans or vice versa. i think we

"Since the 1990's" makes sense, because we haven't had true conservative leadership since the 1980's. We've had liberal democrats, fascist republicans, and now we have the Second Coming of Karl Marx shitting all over the white house.

One need only look at 1981-1982 to see what is really possible. Reagan turned the entire economy around in about 18 months. Instead of blaming his predecessor for everything, he enacted policies that made sense for everyone. 

Yeah, Kohl worked miracles too from 1982 on. I say they were simply lucky, that stuff was possible back then. It will not happen again. In the cold war, you had an enemy to aim your guns at who was also a competitor in an economical sense, even if that was only in everyones imagination. Capitalism had to beat communism, communistic economies needed to be beaten.

Today, we only have enemies to shoot at, but the whole muslim world is no competitor. Those muslim countries who do well do so because we need their oil, those countries who do bad simply just sew our clothes. Today, the youth know that they are fucked, that they probably wont have a lifetime career as assembly line work in the ever so blooming car industry. We outsource every shitty job to cheap labor countries, the shitty jobs that are left are paid worse than ever.

Look at Detroit, look at Bochum. Shit already has hit the fan, the "real" economy (not the stock market video game) will never be the same as in the 80s. So were should all the jobs come from that you need in order to change unemployment rate? Let them build autobahnen? 



[#] Tue Aug 06 2013 17:53:29 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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In the cold war, you had an enemy to aim your guns at who was also a
competitor in an economical sense, even if that was only in everyones
imagination. Capitalism had to beat communism, communistic economies
needed to be beaten.

And it didn't happen. The commies won the Cold War on November 4, 2008.

There are a couple of ways we should take care of things. Here are a few modest proposals:

1. Declare "Cold War II." Throw the commies in jail, including (and especially) the one squatting at 1600.

2. Admit that there is no such thing as "radical Islam" and that the enemy *is* Islam. Begin a new McCarthy-ism to eradicate it from our country.

3. Stop the manipulation of currency by the Chinese, which is one reason we have so much outsourcing of manufacturing. Furthermore, impose a 15% tariff on anything imported from currency-manipulating nations such as China, and a 25% excise tax on anything manufactured by union labor.

4. Dissolve all public sector unions, using deadly force if necessary.

5. Replace progressive taxation with one that has only two brackets: a 10% bracket for most of us, and a 1000% bracket for Bill Gates. No deductions.
Fire 90% of the IRS.

6. Close the borders effectively. Crossing the border illegally shall be declared an act of war. Enforcement shall be implemented by simply declaring open season on trespassers. Why hunt deer when you can take potshots at invaders?

7. Deport everyone who has already crossed the border illegally, even if they have children born here. We are the only nation in the world that has that stupid policy, and it needs to be repealed. Low paying jobs will go to American citizens who need them.

8. Repeal all affirmative action laws. Employment, education, etc. shall be done strictly on merit. The cure for discrimination is *not* more discrimination. (Fighting fire with fire is stupid. Professionals fight fire with water.)

9. Immediately close the Department of Energy, the Department of Education, and all other government agencies that consume resources without giving anything back, while stifling business.

10. Vastly reform "intellectual property" law to prevent the kind of abuse that makes douchebaggery more profitable than innovation.

Implement these ten steps and I guarantee that the economy will flourish.
There's obviously some hyperbole in there but the spirit of it is a solid plan. Anyone who disagrees shall be stabbed in the face with a Buick.

[#] Tue Aug 06 2013 18:11:16 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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They are doing all of that minus the Islam part and the closed borders in China. They simply hate all non-chinese and nobody wants to go there. Shit will hit the fan there only a few years later.

Still, people had a perspective in the 80s, maybe even in the 90s. But what is the current perspective? Your agenda tells me that it is not world peace and the solution to all pollution and energy problems. It simply reads like "take down as many dirty bastards as possible, but spare me!"



[#] Tue Aug 06 2013 21:16:58 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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What about number 11?

When I go to the store everyone else must leave the store until I complete my shopping.

[#] Tue Aug 06 2013 22:00:03 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Why not make 10 the same volume as 11?

[#] Tue Aug 06 2013 22:01:41 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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While we're abolishing random institutions, just because some pimply adolescent thought it was cool:

Don't forget to abolish the "Vaccine Court".

[#] Wed Aug 07 2013 00:23:21 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Damn, it is hot in here. 



[#] Wed Aug 07 2013 04:53:17 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Tue Aug 06 2013 18:11:16 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

They are doing all of that minus the Islam part and the closed borders in China. They simply hate all non-chinese and nobody wants to go there. Shit will hit the fan there only a few years later.

Still, people had a perspective in the 80s, maybe even in the 90s. But what is the current perspective? Your agenda tells me that it is not world peace and the solution to all pollution and energy problems. It simply reads like "take down as many dirty bastards as possible, but spare me!"

I guess you're wrong here.

There are many germans (europeans) working in china.

The chinese car boom is one of the main reasons why the German car industry didn't fall that much into depression as others. Look on chinese roads. do you know which cars you usually don't find?

GM Brands, Ford, Renault.

And while Renault dodges this by producing Dacias in Romania Pakistan, and prospers in producing small cars (nextgen smart will be lots of Renault technology)  GM & Ford don't have similar options.

Heck, for the price of a tiny Ford Fiesta you get a Dacia Tournier. Here in germany.

And thats the reason why the EU doesn't have sharp teeth biting chinese dumping solar industries - china has a way to strike back - milking the german cash cows BMW, VW, Mercedes in exchange for solar product taxes.

 



[#] Wed Aug 07 2013 06:40:17 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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Aug 6 2013 10:00pm from LoanShark @uncnsrd

Why not make 10 the same volume as 11?


?? umm... our list goes to 11. ??
In case we want to go shopping for those small loaves of rye bread.

[#] Wed Aug 07 2013 08:11:04 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Wed Aug 07 2013 04:53:17 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

 

Tue Aug 06 2013 18:11:16 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

Shit will hit the fan there only a few years later.

I guess you're wrong here.

There are many germans (europeans) working in china.

The chinese car boom is one of the main reasons why the German car industry didn't fall that much into depression as others. Look on chinese roads. do you know which cars you usually don't find?

Yes, working. But not people comming to China in hope for a better future.

Also yes, the car boom is there:

  • But why? Because not everyone has a car yet and they can now afford some. (Like we did 20-30 years ago.)
  • Will this boom last long enough, so that Opel will built new factory sites in germany? Probably not.
  • Why? Building them in China is cheaper.
  • Will the chinese keep buying cars at the same rate? No, because:
  1. You need to prove that you own a parking lot for your car in lots of cities.
  2. The market will be saturated at a given point.
  3. Chinas population will face over-aging as germany does, only 30-50 years later. (One reason is the one-child-per-parents rule, only boys were wanted, so they have too many boys, especially in the rural areas and the girls are either nonexistent or moved to the cities.)

There might always be a new market somewhere, but they are constantly getting smaller. We simply do not have a market like the car economy unless we either outlaw non-electric cars and force everyone to buy new ones. Or unless we allow everyone to own a small airplane/helicopter, a la 5th element/back to the future 2. Cars are probably the most costly device people bought, replacing this market with something freash seems almost impossible to me, atm.

Well, maybe if people design floating tanks with internet/cyberspace connection like in Matrix and every private household buys 1-3 of those for 10-25k bucks. This could be used to commute to your workspace and for leisure excursions to "the beach", sport clubs or mars. I should get a patent on those soon...

You could argue that people buy something else with the money which they do not spend on cars. But at least in germany, the value of the average income has decreased for the last 20 years or so, with a significant decline since 1998.



[#] Wed Aug 07 2013 09:39:00 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Wed Aug 07 2013 08:11:04 EDTfrom the_mgt @ Uncensored
Wed Aug 07 2013 04:53:17 EDTfrom dothebart @ Uncensored
Tue Aug 06 2013 18:11:16 EDTfrom the_mgt @ Uncensored

Shit will hit the fan there only a few years later.

I guess you're wrong here.

There are many germans (europeans) working in china.

The chinese car boom is one of the main reasons why the German car industry didn't fall that much into depression as others. Look on chinese roads. do you know which cars you usually don't find?

Yes, working. But not people comming to China in hope for a better future.

they go there for monitoring chinese workers, and return 3 to 10 years later. So most of them only find a mitterm future there.

Also yes, the car boom is there:

  • But why? Because not everyone has a car yet and they can now afford some. (Like we did 20-30 years ago.)
  • Will this boom last long enough, so that Opel will built new factory sites in germany? Probably not.

Opel -> GM. none of those on chinas roads (well next to).

  • Why? Building them in China is cheaper.
  • Will the chinese keep buying cars at the same rate? No, because:
  1. You need to prove that you own a parking lot for your car in lots of cities.
  2. The market will be saturated at a given point.
  3. Chinas population will face over-aging as germany does, only 30-50 years later. (One reason is the one-child-per-parents rule, only boys were wanted, so they have too many boys, especially in the rural areas and the girls are either nonexistent or moved to the cities.)

yes, the chinese boom is cooling down. their economy growth rate dropped below 7% for the first time in 15 years or so. I guess its much to late to enter chinese market by now for a car manufacturer. Anyways, Opel used to play a very special role within GM: platform development was done here (not in Bochum) which was later on deployed to other GM plants (without Opel benefitting that much...) Otoh, Opel wasn't allowed to "invade" markets already penetrated with other GM brands which distributed cars built on Opel platforms (vauxhall anyone?). This is the very special reason why GM did poker that much about selling Opel and finaly didn't do it. They needed time and show action to their own investors, but they can't live without them. On the same phase of the game they want to get rid of aging factories and put pressure on workers. Imho everyone working at Opel who is not actively searching for a new job is an idiot.

Meanwhile chinese work is becoming more expensive; globalized sewing slavery moved on to cheaper countries like Bangladesh. (we used to have that sort of slavery in the GDR and Korea before, the GDR ceased to exist, Korea now builds our phones, and the same is happening in china.

There might always be a new market somewhere, but they are constantly getting smaller. We simply do not have a market like the car economy unless we either outlaw non-electric cars and force everyone to buy new ones. Or unless we allow everyone to own a small airplane/helicopter, a la 5th element/back to the future 2. Cars are probably the most costly device people bought, replacing this market with something freash seems almost impossible to me, atm.

Well, maybe if people design floating tanks with internet/cyberspace connection like in Matrix and every private household buys 1-3 of those for 10-25k bucks. This could be used to commute to your workspace and for leisure excursions to "the beach", sport clubs or mars. I should get a patent on those soon...

You could argue that people buy something else with the money which they do not spend on cars. But at least in germany, the value of the average income has decreased for the last 20 years or so, with a significant decline since 1998.

Maybe we "simply" need to find a way to live without "growth" for our economy.



[#] Wed Aug 07 2013 20:03:34 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering

DEA and NSA Team Up to Share Intelligence, Leading to Secret Use of Surveillance in Ordinary Investigations

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 07:51:44 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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"There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
Well, when there are not enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it
becomes impossible to live without breaking laws.”
~ Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

and they will be watching, taking notes.

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 09:22:01 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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"For the record, I shall repeat what I have said many times before: I
do not join or endorse any political group or movement. More
specifically, I disapprove of, disagree with and have no connection
with, the latest aberration of some conservatives, the so-called
“hippies of the right,” who attempt to snare the younger or more
careless ones of my readers by claiming simultaneously to be followers
of my philosophy and advocates of anarchism. Anyone offering such a
combination confesses his inability to understand either. Anarchism is
the most irrational, anti-intellectual notion ever spun by the
concrete-bound, context-dropping, whim-worshiping fringe of the
collectivist movement, where it properly belongs."

-Ayn Rand

Q: What do you think of the libertarian movement?

AR: All kinds of people today call themselves “libertarians,” especially
something calling itself the
New Right, which consists of hippies who
are anarchists instead of leftist collectivists; but anarchists are
collectivists. Capitalism is the one system that requires absolute
objective law, yet libertarians combine capitalism and anarchism. That’s
worse than anything the New Left has proposed. It’s a mockery of
philosophy and ideology. They sling slogans and try to ride on two
bandwagons. They want to be hippies, but don’t want to preach
collectivism because those jobs are already taken. But anarchism is a
logical outgrowth of the anti-intellectual side of collectivism. I could
deal with a Marxist with a greater chance of reaching some kind of
understanding, and with much greater respect. Anarchists are the scum of
the intellectual world of the Left, which has given them up. So the
Right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the libertarian movement.

[http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ar_libertarianism_qa]

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 09:26:09 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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These quotes seem to fall into the common trap of confusing true conservatives with the GOP establishment, and then go on to muddy the waters with LP/Randroids of various types.

Is it really that complicated to understand that we just want the government to GTFO except where absolutely necessary?

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 09:29:14 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Q: What do you think of the Libertarian Party?

AR: I’d rather vote for Bob Hope, the Marx Brothers, or Jerry
Lewis—they’re not as funny as John Hospers and the Libertarian Party. If
Hospers takes ten votes away from Nixon (which I doubt he’ll do), it
would be a moral crime. I don’t care about Nixon, and I care even less
about Hospers; but this is no time to engage in publicity seeking, which
all these crank political parties are doing. (George Wallace is no great
thinker—he’s a demagogue, though with some courage—but even he had the
sense to stay home this time.) If you want to spread your ideas, do it
through education. But don’t run for president—or even dogcatcher—if
you’re going to help McGovern. [FHF 72]

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 09:39:30 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Is it really that complicated to understand that we just want the
government to GTFO except where absolutely necessary?

Ayn Rand is upset that you make this point without properly citing her.

[#] Thu Aug 08 2013 09:44:42 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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These quotes seem to fall into the common trap of confusing true
conservatives with the GOP establishment, and then go on to muddy the

waters with LP/Randroids of various types.

Serious response: yes, she says some things about the LP that border on hateful... because she was an addled, maladjusted woman. Mixed in there are a few valid points.

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