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[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 10:08:45 EST from Patriot @ PixelBBS

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Which is all well and good. Until you remake a song. Then you're subject to crticism because EVERYONE (ok, almost everyone) bases their opinion on a remake from their opinions about the original. It's not 'art' to copy someone else's lyrics and basic music then make changes to it.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 10:14:43 EST from Miss Jaime @ PixelBBS

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Well, there are some remakes that you *do* like. You said before about AAF. No, it's not 'art' as you say to just copy, but to put their own interpretation to it is art. Music itself is art, as are the written word, paintings, the ginko tree in my mom's backyard. There is no good art, bad art. Someone, somewhere, appreciates it for what it is.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 10:16:34 EST from Patriot @ PixelBBS

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I do like some remakes. I just refuse to classify them as 'art'. And not The ATaris remake of BOys of Summer is most decidedly NOT 'art'. It's a spinoff of someone else's work, and that is at best legal plagiarism, but it is not art.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 10:19:34 EST from Miss Jaime @ PixelBBS

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So you're saying that The Ataris are just a group of loud, guitar-wailing, drum-banging, artless, legal plagiarists? :)

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 10:21:42 EST from Patriot @ PixelBBS

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Unless they have something original, yep.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 10:22:59 EST from Miss Jaime @ PixelBBS

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Not that this has become an attack on the band itself, or anything, but they do have original work, which, if from what I know if you, you would still call them guitar-wailing, drum-banging, artless noise makers. :)

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 10:25:48 EST from Patriot @ PixelBBS

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Right. So? But if it's original I'd grant you the 'art' thing. But not for copying other people.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 10:30:02 EST from Miss Jaime @ PixelBBS

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"art refers to all creative human endeavors, excluding actions directly related to survival and reproduction." No matter the band, no matter genre, there is a creative process at work.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 10:21:15 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Miss Jaime, what form(s) of jazz do you not like?

Jazz takes on so many different genres of its own, it's hard to not like all of it.

I could understand if, for example, you didn't like Fusion, but I should think you might like Ragtime, or perhaps even the blues.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 10:58:36 EST from Miss Jaime @ PixelBBS

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fleeb: I can sit and listen to jazz and appreciate it. As I can do with all forms of music. I was just using that as an example of a genre that I would not necessarily go out and buy to play in my cd player, but I can see how someone can find worth in it. My personality lends itself more to music with a driving beat, what some may consider 'noise', but that's what I love to listen to. But, like I said, I appreciate jazz, and, when scanning the radio in the car, I will listen to a jazz song that catches my ear.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 11:11:23 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Miss Jaime:

Ah, okay, I see where you're coming from.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 14:40:37 EST from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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It's not 'art' to copy someone else's lyrics and basic music then make
changes to it.

OK, rock-n-roll is out, then, as it's one big blues rip-off. And you can
write off every 12-bar blues song save one as one big rip-off. Buddy Guy?
B.B. King? Elvis? Totally artless.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 14:46:35 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Heh.. Country is also derived from the blues.

You'd be surprised at how much popular music derives from the blues.

Not bad for music with its roots in slavery.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 15:04:39 EST from Patriot @ PixelBBS

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No. Let's not be pedantic. If you take someone else's lyrics and music and make modifications to it, it's not art.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 15:21:31 EST from Quagmire @ Uncensored

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Why not? Why couldn't a musician make a statement using someone else's lyrics and music and make their own interpretation?

How many of Mondrian's pieces were variations of each other? Granted, he wasn't stealing others' work, but by your logic if you copy from yourself it isn't art.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 15:43:11 EST from Ford II @ Uncensored

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No. Let's not be pedantic. If you take someone else's lyrics and
music and make modifications to it, it's not art.

It IS art, what it is not is original music.

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 15:45:30 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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(no text)

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 16:48:56 EST from Chickenhead @ Uncensored

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Where does DJ Shadow fit in? His first album "Endtroducing..." is composed
entirely of samples from start to finish. And yet, it is strikingly
original to my ears... (easily one of my favourite albums too).

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 22:10:27 EST from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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I'm not being pedantic. Do you have any idea how many 12-bar blues songs
there are?

Go listen to Devo's covers of "Satisfaction" and "Head Like a Hole",
Senor Coconut's Kraftwerk covers, Laibach's cover of the entire "Let It Be"
album, the entire Alternative Tentacles "Virus 100" album, The Residents'
version of "This is a Man's World", Atom and His Package's many covers
(The Mountain Goats' "Going to Georgia", The Dead Milkmen's "Nutrition",
The Misfits' "Where Eagles Dare", Fugazi's "Waiting Room", etc.), almost
everything Elvis Presley recorded, or any vocal jazz standards and then
let's have this conversation again (really!).

[#] Tue Jan 04 2005 22:26:49 EST from penguinkraft @ Uncensored

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or compare the originals (or earliest known versions) with the famous covers.

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