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[#] Thu Jul 11 2013 12:46:48 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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that apparently wasn't too hard for me. I think I wrote it in E flat

major, or B flat major.

Eb Major - one of THE best keys for orchestral majesty AND for singers. If your instructor thought that Eb Major was "wrong" for singing, please direct that IDIOT to the First Movement of the Mahler 8th. A long and convoluted double fugue for orchestra, two adult choirs, children's choir, 8 operatic soloists, pipe organ and three off-stage brass choirs - ALL IN Eb MAJOR. !!!


Come to think of it - if you've not heard the Mahler 8th, go fix that!!! ;)

[#] Thu Jul 11 2013 19:19:03 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Well, he was a pianist by trade. I think I drove myself more by books than by personal instruction. I wanted to have more of a handle on counterpoint than anything else at the time, as I loved the stuff.

I got really frustrated with him at one point while writing this piece of music that was a series of variations, and out of anger, wrote an area of the music that was 'demented', in the sense that the melody wandered off-course, the harmonies fractured, and everything short of the rhythm was fractured in some fashion. He continued to frustrate me by not even reacting to it at all.

He only ever reacted to something I wrote once. I was trying to figure out (in that same piece of music, but later) a technical problem where I wanted to get to one place from another smoothly, but had a difficult time working out the best melodic line to pull it off. So, I stopped using logic and reason, and just started tinkering with my limited piano skills, listening to something, letting my innate ear figure out a solution instead of using reason and logic. That approach helped me find something subtle, so I wrote it into the line. He initially didn't react at all, as usual, but then I caught him tilting his head, staring at the music, trying to work out what I had done.

That felt great, honestly.

I've probably heard Mahler's 8th. I know I've heard The Planets. But, honestly, my taste in classical music has run farther back in time, to Carlo Gesualdo.
*That* is some unique stuff. Influenced modern composers, and may have helped drive some folks mad with his screwy personal life.

It's been very, very long since I wrote anything. When I left college, I focused on a career in computers. I used to love writing my little things, but I guess I was never particularly great at it. It always required a lot o f effort, and I never felt I got much out of it for all the work.

[#] Thu Jul 11 2013 19:19:36 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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(But, before I listen to anything else, I need to finish the Wagner stuff you've tasked me with hearing).

[#] Thu Jul 11 2013 19:33:07 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Say, anyone ever play this in concert band?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyKNWJnLaYs

[#] Thu Jul 11 2013 21:41:27 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Jul 11 2013 4:33pm from fleeb @uncnsrd (Uncensored)

Say, anyone ever play this in concert band?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyKNWJnLaYs



No. Just got done listening to the piece (Incantation and Dance by John Barnes Chance).

Very impressive.
Unfortunately, I am exceptionally acquainted with the literature for concert band, to the point where I can tell you **precisely** the influence on this work - to the point of heavy, shall we say, ... um.... borrowing!

Morton Gould: Jericho Rhapsody

Go listen - you'll hear it almost immediately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVHIQh6AhcE

[#] Mon Jul 15 2013 07:49:00 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Finished listening to all that Wagner stuff, from the URLs I posted.

I wrote a long thing describing how I heard each one of the pieces of music, but opted not to post this because... well... some folks here might find it a tad offensive, possibly.

In a nutshell, I still hear 'nazi' throughout all of it, just as I expected.

The music is wonderfully performed, and the compositions are masterfully designed with tremendous sensitivity and so forth... but it's freaking Wagner, and I will always hear it with the word 'nazi' somewhere inside.

Which is fine, really. There are plenty of other pieces of music to enjoy without having to listen to Wagner.

[#] Mon Jul 15 2013 15:35:22 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Which is fine, really. There are plenty of other pieces of music to

enjoy without having to listen to Wagner.


Let me suggest something a bit different...

"Hansel und Gretel" (the opera) by Engelbert Humperdinck (not the rock and roll guy).


Let's start with the Overture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbWuPp19zCQ


I don't think you'll hear "nazi" in this however you just might hear something *else* in it....

[#] Mon Jul 15 2013 18:57:19 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I almost heard a church hymn, which was rather nice.

I think, overall, it was fun, and slightly dark in a couple of places one might not expect.

[#] Mon Jul 15 2013 20:35:46 EDT from vince-q @ Uncensored

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Jul 15 2013 3:57pm from fleeb @uncnsrd

I almost heard a church hymn, which was rather nice.

I think, overall, it was fun, and slightly dark in a couple of places

one might not expect.



Hearing a church hymn in the Hansel und Gretel overture is quite to be expected since one of the major themes in the Overture is the Evening Prayer from the end of Act II.

Fun? Absolutely. Dark in places? You bet.

Remind you of anything?? <evil grin>

[#] Tue Jul 16 2013 08:58:58 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Well, it doesn't remind me of Hitler, to be sure.

Although I wonder if Humperdink snuck in some Wagner. I wouldn't perceive it, since I don't regularly listen to Wagner.

[#] Tue Jul 16 2013 10:13:23 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Jul 16 2013 5:58am from fleeb @uncnsrd (Uncensored)

Well, it doesn't remind me of Hitler, to be sure.

Although I wonder if Humperdink snuck in some Wagner. I wouldn't
perceive it, since I don't regularly listen to Wagner.



Proves my case, that's what it does!
If you listen to music and do not *think* you're listening to Wagner, then you don't "hear nazi."

1. Humperdinck was one of the principal conductors at the Bayreuth Festspiehaus for the world premiere of the Ring in 1876.
2. Humperdinck was assistant music director for the world premiere of Parsifal at the Bayreuth Festspielhaus in 1882.
3. Wagner authorized Humperdinck to make additions/deletions to/from the scores of both of those works while in rehearsal to adjust for time needed in scene changes. Thus, there is Humperdinck's music in the final-release versions of Siegfried, Goetterdaemmerung, and Parsifal (Rheingold and Walkure had been in production for roughly ten years prior to the first Bayreuth Festival in 1876 - 1876 was the first time all four 'Ring' works were performed as a complete cycle).
4. Wagner himself said that "Hansel und Gretel" was some of the best music ever written - an enthusiastic over-endorsement perhaps, but Wagner's written words nonetheless.

If you listen to music and do not *think* you're listening to Wagner, then
you don't "hear nazi."

Humperdinck was *so* close to Wagner (professionally) that it is almost impossible to distinguish the music unless you actually *know* what you are hearing. I have, over the years, played recordings of the Overture (Hansel u. Gretel) for friends without telling them what it was, and most of the time the reaction was the equivalent of "wow, that was great - I never knew Wagner could write such pretty stuff!"

So don't feel bad. "Hearing Wagner in Humperdinck" puts you in Very Good Company - the company of a lot of musically talented people. It is an exceptionally common "mistake" to hear Humperdinck's best stuff and confuse it with Richard Wagner. Happens all the time.

Specifically, you'll find lots in common with the Overture to Hansel u. Gretel and the Overture to Die Meistersinger.

FYI - My conducting teacher was Dr. Donald Reinhart.

Reinhart's conducting teacher was Leopold Stokowski.
Stokowski learned *his* trade from Gustav Mahler.
Mahler learned *his* trade from Richard Wagner.

Which, professionally, makes me a great-great-grandson (in conducting only!) of Wagner, who is regarded as the founder of the modern school in symphony/opera conducting.

My intense association with those predecessor instructors - at least according to good musician friends of mine - is what they (my friends) try to use in order to explain my composing style. And there are those that disagree (I am one of those). But it makes me feel good anyway, whenever one of them says that! ;)

[#] Tue Jul 16 2013 15:43:29 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I'm curious to get your take on this piece of music:

http://www.fleeb.com/music/oholynight.mp3

[#] Tue Jul 16 2013 15:57:08 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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*snicker* I remember that one...

[#] Tue Jul 16 2013 20:41:39 EDT from vince-q @ Uncensored

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Jul 16 2013 12:43pm from fleeb @uncnsrd

I'm curious to get your take on this piece of music:

http://www.fleeb.com/music/oholynight.mp3



The singer has absolutely no concept of pitch control or phrasing.
To call this 'horrid' would understatement.

You *were* kidding, right?

[#] Tue Jul 16 2013 21:06:56 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Of course.

It's one of those pieces of music I like to whip out occasionally to remind myself to laugh. I find it hilarious. Just about everything you could do wrongly as a singer was done wrongly.

[#] Wed Jul 17 2013 00:07:21 EDT from vince-q @ Uncensored

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It's one of those pieces of music I like to whip out occasionally to

remind myself to laugh. I find it hilarious. Just about everything
you could do wrongly as a singer was done wrongly.

You sure do not ever want to hear me sing. When I "sing" the result should be declared a federal felony!

[#] Wed Jul 17 2013 13:56:35 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Heh...

I have an appreciation for something done wrongly, but in a certain way... where it's so wrong, it's practically inspired. I can't remember her name right now, but there's a certain lady from a long time ago who wrote a series of poems that were spectacularly bad. Mark Twain was said to have kept a copy of her book on his person at all times.

Sadly, she didn't realize her work was the source of ridicule until she stood before a large crowd of people for a reading, and everyone laughed in places that didn't quite seem appropriate to her.

[#] Thu Jul 18 2013 11:24:20 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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As "well-read" as I like to think I am, evaluating the merits of a poem escapes me. And it's not that I don't like poetry. I do. I guess that I am the iterary equivalent of "tone deaf" in the poetry arena... ;)

[#] Fri Jul 19 2013 19:56:11 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Poetry is writing where the words mean more than one thing at a time. Or so it was explained to me before it sorta clicked.

I probably wrote my best poetry in college, but I can't recall any of it, sadly, and I don't have any copies of it. Probably the best of the lot might have been one I wrote concerning a silk shirt that someone dear to me had given. It was a short poem without a lot of words, but the last line was, "I felt you move within me." That one line packed a lot of wallop.

[#] Sat Jul 27 2013 21:50:37 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I know some folks don't care for Carol of the Bells, but Pentatonix did an interesting a capella version of it that includes beatboxing.

I also know this isn't quite the normal time of year for this sort of thing, but... well, good music seems fine any time of year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSUFzC6_fp8

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