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[#] Tue Mar 28 2017 01:46:56 EDT from kc5tja @ Uncensored

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Mac Finder feels -nothing- like Amiga Workbench to me. There are many things about WB that I miss, such as two-state icons, the ability to have a focused window *behind* another window, etc. (OK, the latter issue is technically an Intuition versus Carbon/Cocoa [both behave the same for this purpose].)

Also, I really miss Tripos-style command-line argument handling. Say what you will about its verbosity, or how awesome -dafaq is because it's so much easier to type over and over again, I *really* enjoy having keywords that are at least mnemonic (even if only in the Z-80 or 6502 opcode sort of way) about what they mean. Additionally, --long --options --like --this --are --every --bit --as --annoying as -dafuq or -d -a -f -u -q. If verbosity is such an issue for system administration purposes, then you can always script things (makefiles work great for this kind of repetitive stuff).

[#] Tue Mar 28 2017 01:52:15 EDT from kc5tja @ Uncensored

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Sorry, I was going somewhere with that last post, but forgot to tack it on.
To summarize, I find Unix has problems where options are either too short or too long, and in either case, the syntax is incredibly annoying to me, even after all these years. Windows' choice to use / for the option prefix dates back to RT-11 (IIRC), and VMS similarly shares this syntax. It's ugly, but at least their option names tend to be mid-length, and thus both more useful and easier for me to grok.

I think the best syntax I've ever seen is, ironically, found on IBM mainframes.
Command option1(blah) option2(blah) option3 option4(subopt1(...),subopt2 subopt3), etc. You get the idea. It's natural, and it falls out of common programming practice. But, oh well. While MVS and VM/CMS opt for infix applicative syntax which I find quite nice, AmigaOS/Tripos opt for an almost Smalltalk-like approach, which is similarly nice, if less expressive.

BLEH, rambling again. Sorry. :)

[#] Tue Mar 28 2017 07:28:41 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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kc5tja: "PowerShell"

[#] Tue Mar 28 2017 12:13:04 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I do miss Intuition and Workbench ... Intuition seemed like the perfect UI, everything was in the right place and behaved in a predictable way. From the close-button on the LEFT side, to the window up/down stack buttons, to the status bar that turned into a menu bar when you right-clicked in a window (Apple took decades to produce a mouse with more than one button, and they still don't make use of it much) ... absolute perfection.

And although I would have preferred if AmigaDOS were unix-based -- which is kind of hard when you don't have an MMU -- the thing I loved most about the underlying OS was its multi-root filesystem. No drive letters, no mount paths, you just referenced the volume you wanted, and if it wasn't already mounted, the program paused and you were prompted to resolve the volume. You could do that any way you wanted -- by inserting a floppy disk with that volume name, by creating an alias to some other volume location, etc. And then the program would resume operation. So easy, and modern OS's *still* can't do it.

Also: Jay Miner, unlike Steve Jobs, is not 100HE(tm).

[#] Tue Mar 28 2017 15:18:53 EDT from kc5tja @ Uncensored

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100HE? Google only shows plasma sprayers when I look for this term.

[#] Tue Mar 28 2017 15:19:35 EDT from kc5tja @ Uncensored

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Honestly, PowerShell makes me strongly prefer Perl. Syntax matters.

[#] Tue Mar 28 2017 16:00:46 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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"100HE" is an abbreviation for "100% Hitler Equivalent (tm)"

[#] Tue Mar 28 2017 17:17:23 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Speaking of which ... since it's clear that Linux has not taken its rightful place as the dominant desktop operating system, and probably will not for the foreseeable future, it is time to assign blame.

I am assigning 100.0% of the blame to Miguel de Icaza.  He willfully, deliberately, and maliciously sabotaged the platform, for that exact purpose.  There are few who deserve more pain and suffering than he does (just a few -- Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, etc).

Thankfully, Linux has become the dominant platform everywhere *except* the desktop.  This includes mobile, where Android reigns supreme, even though Miguel Hitler de Icaza and Nat Hitler Friedman tried as hard as they could to sabotage it there as well.

Windows is tolerable these days.  And the fact that Windows 10 can run most Linux software natively makes it even more tolerable.  Microsoft says that the Linux layer is intended for web developers, who they saw using a lot of Apple laptops to develop web software that would be deployed into production on Linux servers.  I actually think they're up to something a little bigger, maybe a year or two down the road: it seems that if they can make Windows answer most of the Linux kernel ABI, then there's no reason they couldn't get Docker containers running on Windows servers.

Think about it ... since a Docker image contains all of the necessary userland to make a software stack run, all they really need is a Linux-compatible ABI and a supporting toolset to manage it.  I'd be very surprised if this wasn't already in the works.


[#] Wed Mar 29 2017 11:00:06 EDT from kc5tja @ Uncensored

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Personally, I blame two things: the split between Gnome and KDE, and that *BOTH* parties seemed to insist steadfastly to the idea of, "If we make our platform look and feel like a (Mac|Windows) machine, we'll attract more users" philosophy of UI design that persists to this day (although, today, append (iOS|Android) to the list). Linux has never had a "soul", a distinct feel of its own, when it comes to user interfaces. Therefore, it has been positively ignorable for its entire existence. Completely forgettable. Nothing which acts as a unique selling point to a user. Miguel's work didn't help, but I don't see it as entirely his fault. He would have been neutered in efficacy if the communities hadn't insisted on this weird Microapple Macindows chimera of a user interface.

PC/GEOS had *rabid* followers. AmigaOS had *rabid* followers. Even OS/2.
What were they doing differently?
Highly responsive UIs with unique operating characteristics that actually optimized a user's workflow, for at least a certain class of work if not more broadly. They all had something _unique_ to appeal to users.

Ahh well.

[#] Wed Mar 29 2017 13:19:50 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Sure ... and if CDE had been open sourced 15 years sooner, none of that other stuff would have ever happened, and we'd be in a much better position today.

Let me be clear about something, though.
1. KDE was created because CDE was insufficiently free.
2. GNOME was created, ostensibly because Qt was insufficiently free, but actually because Microsoft was paying Miguel to sabotage the platform.

The above is true.

[#] Wed Mar 29 2017 13:35:59 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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However, GNOME always sucked.

[#] Wed Mar 29 2017 16:13:42 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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That's not the point. KDE 1.X was exactly the desktop Linux needed at exactly the right time, and it had well-defined interfaces for almost anything you wanted to do. It doesn't matter whether GNOME was better or worse; the point was that Miguel single-handedly and deliberately sabotaged the one opportunity Linux had for a single desktop UI and API's. And for that he deserves a thousand eternities of torment.

(KDE 2.X was pretty good, too ... after that they started trending towards a more Eurotrash style of UI -- a sin that Apple is also guilty of.)

[#] Thu Mar 30 2017 17:29:45 EDT from kc5tja @ Uncensored

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I really need some more proof that Icaza was paid to start Gnome before I extend enough credence to that idea. I think he was just naturally a jerk, and MS saw him as an ally much later.

[#] Thu Mar 30 2017 23:10:29 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I just re-installed my Windoze desktop after getting hit with malware

from a bad download. First time in the 2+ years I've been running
'doze as my primary desktop OS.

...and four days later a new computer shows up at my doorstep. The timing on this was impeccable. And by impeccable I mean COMPLETELY PECCABLE!

[#] Fri Apr 21 2017 09:52:22 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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For those who care ...

[ ]

Lots of updates to the Linux subsystem in Windows 10.

It's also been revealed that the reason the console window (which runs cmd.exe and powershell) doesn't suck as much as it did for 30 years, is because they modernized it to accomodate the Linux console. So it seems that Linux is even making Windows itself better :)

Don't get me wrong, I still want Bill Gates to be fed feet-first into a wood chipper, and I still hope to (literally) piss on his grave someday. But this is a good development, and I've never been one to let my personal biases get in the way of an objective observation. It's ironic, but Microsoft now has a better unix than Apple.

[#] Fri Apr 21 2017 12:26:24 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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Apple has a real Unix - it might be the only real Unix left soon.

I'm sure it was fun talking BSD vs. System V with you back in the day.

[#] Fri Apr 21 2017 22:46:09 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Today, Linux *is* unix. The "pedigree" hasn't been relevant for a long time.

Back when BSD vs SysV was a thing, I didn't have access to either. All I had access to was Altos machines, running Xenix. Then, as now, Microsoft had an interesting unix.

[#] Tue May 02 2017 17:31:01 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Lots of updates to the Linux subsystem in Windows 10.

Yeah, I jumped on Creators Update as soon as it came out. Looks like the fixed the pagetable issue that was causing java problems. This is starting to look useful as a backup dev environment for those days that I might not bring my work Macbook home.

[#] Tue May 02 2017 17:31:25 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Also looks like some of those fixes got backported to the pre-Creators Update build.

[#] Thu May 04 2017 14:47:52 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I'm sure it was fun talking BSD vs. System V with you back in the day.


You forgot to mention Xenix :-)

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