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[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 08:01:56 EST from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I fyou haven't heard, MS just offered $36 a share I think for yahoo.
Yahoo's at $19 or so right now.
Anybody wanna make some free money on microsoft? Buy now.

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 09:00:27 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I hated Yahoo anyway. Makes sense the two should become one.

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 09:22:50 EST from Ford II @ Uncensored

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So far they haven't said yes yet, they might ask for more money.
The funny thing is, if they sell, this would be a great chance for MS to stick it to AT&T.

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 10:57:07 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Yahoo News is describing it as a "hostile bid."

Microsoft would most likely mismanage Yahoo into oblivion, much like they did with HotMail... er, I mean MSN Hotmail... er, I mean "Windows Live Mail."

And then of course there's the little problem of migrating thousands of servers from FreeBSD to Windows. I seem to recall that our friends here who used to work for P* mentioned something about a study which found that Windows requires twice as much hardware per unit of load as unix when running this type of service.

Here's hoping that Ballmer is so obsessed with "killing Google" that he badly mismanages everything.

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 11:41:10 EST from Ford II @ Uncensored

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so I should sell my stock?

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 11:48:19 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I keep my measly few shares in Microsoft just so I can vote against Bill Gates and Ballmer.

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 11:51:09 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Hmm, maybe this is not so bad after all.

Who would really want to switch from Microsoft Exchange to Microsoft Zimbra?
Suddenly, Citadel is looking better and better...

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 12:10:29 EST from wizard of aahz @ Uncensored

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Yeah, There's a very interesting point.. How interested would Microsoft be in the continuation of Zimbra??

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 12:24:04 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The people on the Zimbra forums are calling for the expensive version to be GPL'ed. They just don't seem to realize that Zimbra was never really an open source play to begin with -- they applied the GPL to a cut-down crippleware version.

I actually think that Zimbra and Citadel are targeting different segments of the market anyway. Unfortunately for Zimbra, their target appears to be high-end "enterprise" environments -- exactly the kind of thing that Microsoft will look unfavorably upon.

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 14:53:22 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Here's one of the top Google search results for the phrase "Microsoft Zimbra"

What with Zimbra if it becomes part of Microsoft - Zimbra - Forums
Just in: Microsoft! bids! $44.6bn! for! Yahoo! What will happen with Zimbra if
this deal goes trough? I have invested in Zimbra quite a large amount.

Between the time Google scanned that link and now ... Zimbra has deleted the
entire thread. :)

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 17:50:17 EST from roue @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Our campus switched to Zimbra last Fall and it's a really nice collaboration suite. Granted, it doesn't have the killer-app ssh access feature that keeps me coming back to Citadel, but it's still pretty sweet. :)

[#] Fri Feb 01 2008 22:18:52 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Zimbra's big selling point has always been its web interface. They did a good job with it. Unfortunately it takes a machine and a half to run -- it's a big bloated Java thing.

Less impressive is the way they bill themselves as an open source company but put most of the desirable features in a non-free version. Anyone who thought they were getting the Microsoft-proof-ness of open source when they bought into Zimbra is in for a rude awakening.

[#] Sat Feb 02 2008 00:25:08 EST from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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Yea I'm aware somewhat of the deal. Well, someone should take that front end and bolt on whatever is needed to have it run independent of the back end. It already has a UI for setting up various mail accounts, it needs the same for calendars and contacts etc.

[#] Sat Feb 02 2008 00:25:47 EST from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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What I mean is, uncouple them so this UI can be used on other systems hint hint.

[#] Sat Feb 02 2008 00:55:12 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I don't think that really works with their business model. They want to sell complete systems to enterprises. They certainly don't want the tech support burden of dealing with the integration of their web UI with every mail system out there.

In any case, I'm sure that Zimbra is the last thing on Microsoft's mind right now. Ballmer wants to "kill Google" and buying Yahoo could end up being recorded in the history books as Microsoft's final big effort to throw its weight (and money) around before sliding into irrelevancy.

I was talking to someone today who suggested that out of all the big players in that industry, Yahoo is the most well-run company of the group, and Yahoo would end up running Microsoft. It's an interesting perspective.

Is there any doubt at this point that Microsoft's best days are behind them?

[#] Sat Feb 02 2008 01:18:34 EST from IO ERROR @ Uncensored

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In other news, I have even more Windows Vista suckage to report.

I just got a new laptop which has one of those shiny new fingerprint reader things built into it. So I figure what the hell, and I play with it, enroll myself, and so on. So far so good. Until next time I log in, and Windows claims the fingerprint reader isn't there. AFTER I log in, it can find it just fine.

Not surprisingly, Linux finds it just fine.

[#] Sat Feb 02 2008 01:21:12 EST from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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Very little doubt. But keep in mind that a giant can do a lot of damage as it goes down. Also that with the amount of money and revenue they continue to have, despite being past their prime.. is enough such that if they so choose to put the right leadership in place, they have the ability to turn it around.
Not that they will ever do that. If they really wanted to do that, they could have also turned around their online offerings instead of buying yahoo.
But the potential is there and will be there for some time.

[#] Sat Feb 02 2008 01:22:12 EST from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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As far as the Zimbra front end thing, I am referring to the open source version.

[#] Sat Feb 02 2008 04:07:57 EST from dothebart @ Uncensored

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if you just replace a file of a running binary under solaris, the application might most probably crash on next action it takes which is not in memory.

moving the old one to /tmp/foo, replacing it with a new one, then killing the old to make the new one come up gracefully works. 

[#] Sat Feb 02 2008 11:13:08 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Very little doubt. But keep in mind that a giant can do a lot of
damage as it goes down. Also that with the amount of money and revenue

Jeff Prothero once compared it to a T-Rex trapped in a tar pit. He's going to sink, but until then he's quite capable of slicing up anyone who comes within reach.

Also there are several different definitions of "turn it around." There's the one that any normal company would be happy with: increased revenue and a healthy position in the market. Then there's the one that Microsoft would consider successful: a return to a position where they can pursue a lock-in on every portion of the market.

And that's the real problem facing Microsoft management right now: monopoly is the only game they really know how to play. They've built their entire company around locking people in, leveraging their products against each other and forcing people to use them (or at least giving most people the illusion that they don't have a choice). When forced to play fair, Microsoft does not do quite as well.

Empires crumble from the outside in. Microsoft has never been able to take over the Internet (despite the punditry from years ago that "whoever controls the browser controls the Internet") and their market share in the server market continues to shrink. Consumer products such as gaming, media, and mobile systems are doing ok, but their chances of ever monopolizing those markets to the point where they are calling the shots for the entire industry are slim.

That leaves the core of their empire -- the desktop. As always, Windows and Office are their cash cows. And even those are threatened, as applications move off the desktop, clueful users are beginning to switch to Apple or Linux, and then there's the office file format war -- Microsoft knows everything is at stake here.

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