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[#] Fri Dec 13 2013 14:34:15 EST from zooer @ Uncensored

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Linus knows all.

[#] Fri Dec 13 2013 15:07:06 EST from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Fri Dec 13 2013 13:23:58 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Hey, when did bash tab-completion of filenames become context sensitive? 

http://bash-completion.alioth.debian.org/

Have been using that for at least 3 years now, I think maybe even 5 years.

What I like even more is that the completion also works for commands, like /etc/init.d/citadel sta[TAB] *bing* might offer you "start" and "status". (Ok, that is not really a giant step for mankind... just an example.) Similar stuff works all around the bash, in Gentoo you need to actively request it for some stuff, though.



[#] Fri Dec 13 2013 15:37:01 EST from dothebart @ Uncensored

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with modern git versions, it can even tab-complete i.e. branches,

ala git chekout sta<tab>-> ble-8<tab> list of matches.



[#] Fri Dec 13 2013 15:38:41 EST from dothebart @ Uncensored

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if you run only one app per hypervised cluster, who needs stuff like memory protection?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/17/cloudius_systems_osv_cloud_software/

(or you use i.e. docker)



[#] Sun Dec 15 2013 12:11:46 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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So it looks like context sensitive completion has been around for a while.
Why am I just now noticing it? I am immersed in the Linux shell every day.
I'm "soaking in it" right now, in fact, and noticing it's hard to type on my tablet dock keyboard when all the fingers on my left hand are tingly from too much guitar playing.

[#] Sun Dec 15 2013 12:16:20 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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if you run only one app per hypervised cluster, who needs stuff like
memory protection?

That's an interesting approach. Minimal OS stack for an appliance that runs nothing but a JVM.

I wonder if that model could be extended to native applications. Why have all those runlevels and authentication systems and libraries and everything else when all you really need is libc and your application?

It would be very interesting to strip down a Linux to the point where it just initializes the network and runs your app directly from init. There are efforts like "jeos" but they're so generalized that they may not be stripped down to the bare minimum.

[#] Sun Dec 15 2013 14:00:15 EST from dothebart @ Uncensored

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well, i'd rather question whether one needs fat virtualisation in first place..

https://www.docker.io/

seems to be the proper alternative with thin virtualisation - just one kernel in the game.

however, some of the concepts we use to bootstrap citadel propertly aren't implemented yet.



[#] Sun Dec 15 2013 18:01:39 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The obvious win would be to evolve the standard build tools to the point where you can go "make appliance" and end up with an .OVF containing your application plus just enough of the OS to start it.

[#] Mon Dec 30 2013 19:32:51 EST from zooer @ Uncensored

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LibreOffice online. I guess it is suppose to be for any device but I think it is geared to Chrome/Chromebooks.

https://www.rollapp.com/apps

At the bottom center is a small clickable link for "test without signing in".
Didn't look at it long enough to see what the difference is between it and google drive.

[#] Mon Dec 30 2013 23:21:26 EST from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Sun Dec 15 2013 06:01:39 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
The obvious win would be to evolve the standard build tools to the point where you can go "make appliance" and end up with an .OVF containing your application plus just enough of the OS to start it.

Like a virt-builder thingie?

http://rwmj.wordpress.com/2013/10/05/new-tool-virt-builder/

http://rwmj.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/virt-builder-making-vms-in-around-30-seconds/

 

 



[#] Wed Jan 01 2014 14:01:42 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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At the bottom center is a small clickable link for "test without signing
in".

I couldn't get the ad to dismiss so I couldn't test the application.

However this appears to just be some sort of screenscrape-into-the-browser thing?

[#] Wed Jan 01 2014 14:04:31 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Like a virt-builder thingie?

virt-builder deploys an operating system plus any applications you specify.
I'm thinking even more barebones than that. More like, not even a full POSIX userland, basically just libc and init and enough to get the IP stack started and your application running.

[#] Thu Jan 02 2014 00:16:43 EST from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Wed Jan 01 2014 02:04:31 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
Like a virt-builder thingie?

virt-builder deploys an operating system plus any applications you specify.
I'm thinking even more barebones than that. More like, not even a full POSIX userland, basically just libc and init and enough to get the IP stack started and your application running.

Virt-builder to deploy a custom lfs base image?

http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

You sound like you are talking more "containers" and the madness that follows if you want to go smaller.



[#] Fri Jan 03 2014 13:53:26 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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A container unfortunately already has its IP stack and filesystem managed by the host. I need to be able to go barebones in a true virtual machine.

[#] Fri Jan 03 2014 17:30:17 EST from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Have not tried Docker, but came across it again in one of those weekly newsletters:

https://github.com/dotcloud/docker

Not sure how complicated the proggie you want to ship is.

 



[#] Fri Jan 03 2014 17:45:01 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The program to be shipped is Citadel, silly goose. Checking out Docker now ...

Ok, so it's still an application container, not something that can build a full VM ... but it still offers some interesting ideas that might be usable.

[#] Sat Jan 04 2014 00:06:17 EST from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Duh.  I should have known.  I just thought you might be messing around with something else for work or other endeavors. 

How about using the virt-builder and add Citadel after boot via something like Fabric to script changes / updates to your "golden image"?

http://docs.fabfile.org

I use Fabric as it is a nice Python library that I can build up my own library of often used bits of code to be re-used later to do common tasks (other folks seem to share as well and even write specific libs for sysadmin work etc...)

If Python / Fabric is not your bag, there are many other language bindings to do the same sort of thing in language X.  Let me know if you find a fun one :-)

 



[#] Sat Jan 04 2014 05:28:22 EST from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Fri Jan 03 2014 17:45:01 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
The program to be shipped is Citadel, silly goose. Checking out Docker now ...

Ok, so it's still an application container, not something that can build a full VM ... but it still offers some interesting ideas that might be usable.

there was s.b. on IRC who did docker experiments with the citadel .debs

However, at that point in time there were major problems getting configs into the container in some way then editing text files and restart the container.

they need to come up with a solution howto run debconf from a container with user interfacing which wasn't possible about half a year ago.

the container would fire up with some random generated hostname which would become the citadel nodename. It also would have UTC timezone - always.

Not being able to interactively run citadel setup also took away all esay ways to fix the system resulting from a container deployment.



[#] Sat Jan 04 2014 19:10:21 EST from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Well, make citadel-setup remote-capable, kind of a puppetmaster. ;)



[#] Sun Jan 05 2014 01:57:13 EST from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Sat Jan 04 2014 07:10:21 PM EST from the_mgt @ Uncensored

Well, make citadel-setup remote-capable, kind of a puppetmaster. ;)



Interesting thought, but I would think finding the "works for all software" solution to the existing solutions better than taking on yet another role for Citadel that is far outside the norm.  I could very well be wrong though, as the coders for Citadel are quite clever :-)

I would be quite interested in anybody that finds something that fits the bill better than a full VM and setup via scripted ssh session.

 



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