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[#] Wed Jun 13 2012 04:04:51 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: My take on the Red Hat / Fedora Secure Boot controversy

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remember css? or the ps one? or the wii? or the xbox? or the iphone? or blueray? or in special the PSIII?

as long as they give the hackers the opportunity to play (a way to turn it off, or like redhat sign bootloaders) its going to survive.

When Sony took away the "other OS" - option for the psIII, it was half a year for their protection to be broken.

while the "otheros" option might have been commercialy questionable (people building clusters with cheap hardware intended to be fully paid by purchasing games) it was the only way for them to remain unhacked for 4 years.

I realy think the same accounts for secure boot.



[#] Wed Jun 13 2012 09:07:17 EDT from djukon @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: My take on the Red Hat / Fedora Secure Boot controversy

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Large corporations will always do everything in their reach to survive and keep growing profit-wise. It is a futile cat and mouse game in the long run when considering the current social-economic paradigm.
Hardware focused open source/free technology projects such as Open Source Ecology (OSE), Research Do-It-Yourself and WikiSpeed are catching on. OSE has four of fifty industry grade machines already completed, available for any settlement to construct from basic tools and materials. The fifty modular machines include tractors, bread ovens and circuit makers. In time, the technology dependency tree will be complete enough to locally produce computational devices. This is when profit-driven corporations will not be able to impose standards.
It starts to become interesting when you apply the free technology movement to the distributed/networked governance movement through the Transition Network, which places settlements as sovereign prosperity regerative enterprises that will require these tools to be as self-reliant as possible.
http://opensourceecology.org http://www.rndiy.org http://www.wikispeed.com http://www.transitionnetwork.org

[#] Wed Jun 13 2012 12:16:12 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: My take on the Red Hat / Fedora Secure Boot controversy

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I don't doubt that hackers will find a way around Secure Boot. The reason it's a bit more important this time around is because new Linux users often come into existence when someone wants to try it out for the first time, either on old/spare hardware or in a multiboot configuration. By preventing new users from experimenting, Microsoft can prevent new users from ever becoming experts/hackers.

MICROSOFT IS SLAUGHTERING BABY PENGUINS AND MUST BE STOPPED !!!


[#] Wed Jun 13 2012 15:03:47 EDT from Spell Binder @ Uncensored

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Out of sheer curiousity, what is the official "reason" for Secure Boot? To protect the system from booting a malicious OS? If so, then bart's right on the money. Someone will figure out how to bypass security, or forge a key, and script kiddies everywhere will be infecting hosts like they do now.
Secure Binder

[#] Wed Jun 13 2012 15:05:32 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The "official" reason for Secure Boot is to thwart boot sector viruses. The "actual" reason for Secure Boot is to prevent the installation of non-Microsoft operating systems.

[#] Wed Jun 13 2012 16:30:59 EDT from Spell Binder @ Uncensored

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If that's their "official" reason, then the more obvious solution seems much simpler.

Don't give permission to any application programs to write the boot sector!

I know. I know. This is MS Windows we're talking about, here. In Linux, you can only write the boot sector if you have root privileges, and it's assumed that if you've got root privileges, you know what you're doing.

[#] Wed Jun 13 2012 19:02:15 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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It's really about DRM. They want to have a boot chain where every link in the chain is digitally signed... never mind, I think, that on a PC that doesn't really gain you foolproof security because decryption is, I think, still happening in software... doesn't matter because the pinheads at the RIAA/MPAA/NSA demand it.

Of course PC's will still keep the option of booting with disabled Trusted Boot. It's just that eventually your BluRay player will refuse to run unless Trusted Boot is turned on.


Oh, I've got a line-of-code or two contributed to the kernel, and the day that Trusted Boot becomes no-longer-optional is the day that I sue Red Hat to prevent them from distributing my code...

[#] Wed Jun 13 2012 22:16:07 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Hopefully, it won't take long for someone like DVD Jon to figure out Microsoft's signing key and distribute it to a grateful world, and then about ten minutes later someone will release a "trusted" bootloader that simply chain loads into a regular boot loader.

It's definitely time to boycott Hollywood.

[#] Wed Jun 13 2012 22:25:29 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Also Bollywood. I want freedom from Bollywood.

[#] Thu Jun 14 2012 14:08:36 EDT from maraakate @ Uncensored

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We could really make a whole seperate thread about how useless Hollywood has been in the last 20 years. But, fuck it. I think everything that could ever be said on MPAA and other related fuckery has been now beaten to a dead horse.
The simplest way to get them to go away is to keep pirating their movies (if you really want to watch the latest rehashes of shit that was popular 30 years ago) or don't watch them. I choose to not even watch them.

[#] Mon Jul 09 2012 14:03:33 EDT from dowdle @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: Which backup solutions for a single fileserver?

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I use rsync for stuff I don't need history on and rdiff-backup on stuff I do.

A lot of people seem to like BackupPC.  It is based on rsync but has its own perl front end that does something similiar to rsnapshot (I think) and also does dedup.  It also offers a web-based interface for your users so they can service themselves and retrieve any backup files they want.

-- 
TYL,
Scott Dowdle - Belgrade, Montana/



[#] Mon Jul 09 2012 14:15:19 EDT from dowdle @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: My little rant of the day

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I strongly disagree with your rant.

The EFF and the FSF serve completely different missions although sometimes, I guess, their missions might have some overlap.

Lots of people complain about the FSF and the antics of RMS.  I'm not one of those people.  RMS needs to stay the uncompromising jerk he has always been because that is his role.  He is fairly unique in that role.  If it wasn't for him and his purity, we'd all probably be running a lot more proprietary software on top of our free systems... because there would be less free software.  While the FSF doesn't pay people to develop software anymore (to the best of my knowledge, but I'm fairly ignorant on the topic), they do act as a clearing house for lots of free software projects and as far as I know, they have new projects join them all the time.

I have also personally interacted with a number of people (over the years and recently too) that have gotten into free software and Linux because of RMS... as a result of personally seeing him speak.  Yeah, Richard does pretty much say the same things over and over and over... and doesn't have a lot of new material... but there are still a large percentage of people who are completely unfamiliar with his speal... and since he speaks so much, especially overseas, he does still bring a lot of new people into "the movement" even if his message hasn't changed much in the last two decades.  I imagine he will continue to do so.  The EFF, not so much.  See, they have different missions and both the EFF and FSF are good resources.

So, what was it about the FSF that angered you?  I would assume it was something specific and not just the general concept.

-- 
TYL,
Scott Dowdle - Belgrade, Montana



[#] Mon Jul 09 2012 14:51:46 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: My little rant of the day

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The thing that pushed me over the edge was the renaming of UEFI Secure Boot to "Restricted Boot." Yes, it is a more accurate name but that's NOT what it's called. Stallman does NOT have the right to rename other people's things just because he feels like it.

Why did open source succeed where "free software" failed? Simple: Richard Stallman is a liberal; Eric Raymond is a libertarian. You can say it in more words if you want to, you can talk about how open source is about a better and more beneficial development model while "free software" is just militant ideology, and it would all be more or less correct, but my way of describing it pretty much sums things up.

See also: "Shut Up And Show Them The Code" [ http://goo.gl/AHb9U ]

You are free to disagree with me, but if you do, I *demand* that you refer to our favorite operating system as "IGnatius T Foobar / Linux"

[#] Tue Jul 10 2012 12:22:19 EDT from dowdle @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: My little rant of the day

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Wow, you're mad that Stallman came up with an alternative name for Secure Boot.  Get over it.  He always comes up with alternative names for things and he always will.  He has a right to do so just as much as everyone else does.  Remember, modern communications is all about "framing" just ask David Frum.  If memory serves he renamed the "estate tax" the "death tax".  Another Stallman framing thing was DRM.  Digital Restrictions Management vs. Digital Rights Management.  I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.  Yes I have seen a number of sqeaky wheels get upset about some of the FSF's PR compaigns saying they were stupid and/or unaffective... but it isn't like they spend 1/100,000 as much as Apple or Microsoft does on one of their product campaigns.  That is to say that given the cost, they are fairly effective... just not as effective as fighting fire with fire.

Regarding the political labeling of RMS and ERS and saying that one has won and one has not or whatever... sorry, but I'm not following you.  Free Software is a winner.  Open Source is a winner.  To me neither term has won out over the other... and they are often clumped together as FOSS or FLOSS.  Both seem to still be legitimate terms that have a decernable meaning... and are somewhat incomplete by themselves.  Free Software is just as important now as it ever was.  In fact with so much stuff going "into the cloud" and the big companies using FLOSS to construct proprietary services, that war we thought we had won has clearly taken an unexpected turn.

I'd like to expand this discussion into hardware too.  We need a free hardware foundation.  Maybe there is one and I'm just not familiar with it... or maybe the FSF has a branch on hardware as well.  Someone please inform me. Here are two presentations that I think are very well worth viewing that show why we need some organization looking out for us on the hardware front.  Maybe the EFF is?

Bruce Perens' Linux.conf.au 2012 Keynote: http://www.montanalinux.org/video-lca2012-keynote-bruce-perens.html

Cory Doctorow: The coming war on general computation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYqkU1y0AYc

My guess is that you are already familiar with them.  The whole Restricted Boot... cough... I mean the UEFI Secure Boot issue plays into the "closed hardware of the future" narative setup by those two videos.

So far as who seems to be more active in the community these days... RMS is still going like the Energizer Bunny although he has had some recent health issues.  I haven't really heard much from ESR in a few years.  The last thing I recall hearing from ESR was when he lambasted Fedora for not abandoning their principles and giving people all of the patent encumbered codecs that they want.  Perhaps I'm paraphrasing in my own unique way.  My guess is that ESR has continued to be active but that I've somehow missed it.

So far as calling it I.T.F Linux... I call my distro either "Fedora Linux" or "MontanaLinux"... but until everyone switches over to LLVM/clang and all BSD licensed tools, RMS does have a reasonable arguement.  I myself do not call it GNU slash Linux and yes I realize that a Linux distro comes from thousands of places... but RMS was on a mission to build a free OS and he had most everything but the kernel... and Linux filled the bill there.  Of course we have the BSD licensed systems as well but I don't see so many people clamoring to them.  They definitely have their following and use cases so please no one take offense.  I prefer the GPL over BSD/MIT.

While I certainly love to talk politics, I really don't like to ues political views as analogies for the software/tech industry.  They just don't map very well... and when I try to think in those terms... my head hurts.

-- 
TYL,
Scott Dowdle - Belgrade, Montana



[#] Mon Jul 23 2012 12:11:25 EDT from dowdle @ Uncensored

Subject: A computer for novices... that's Linux based?

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Greetings,

I just ran across a computer brand named Telikin that is designed for novice computer users.  They currently offer two all-in-one systems with touch screens, keyboard and mouse.  They run Linux... a fork of Tiny Core Linux... but the user interface that is on it isn't anything that you'd recognise.  It almost seems like a webpage because there is a menu on the left fifth of the screen and the applications take up the rest of the screen... and the menu always shows.  I wonder if they borrowed any code from existing FLOSS applications or they if they did everything completely from scratch?!?

Anyway, check it out if you have any desire.  It is an interesting concept... although I'd like to see the software available separately.  http://www.telikin.com/

-- 
TYL,
Scott Dowdle - Belgrade, Montana



[#] Mon Jul 23 2012 17:30:02 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: A computer for novices... that's Linux based?

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hm, the calendaring page looks a little like what sunbird grew up from.

but nice weird thingabob.



[#] Wed Jul 25 2012 11:20:26 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: A computer for novices... that's Linux based?

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It looks like the same thing a lot of builders have done -- just a bunch of existing software with a slick looking UI wrapped around it.

Seems to me that it shows there's a place for a "shell for dummies" that could be swapped in when the intended user is computer illiterate.

[#] Wed Jul 25 2012 11:20:57 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: A computer for novices... that's Linux based?

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(Oh wait, there is, it's called "Metro" and it can't be turned off. And it requires the underlying operating system to be fundamentally broken.)

[#] Thu Jul 26 2012 11:48:59 EDT from dowdle @ Uncensored

Subject: Metro for the masses

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I agree with your assessment of Windows 8 from one perspective... that of Windows literate users.  From the perspective of computer novices, Metro is more usable.  I think Microsoft realized that the iPad (and other smartphone derived user interfaces) was winning with people who found more traditional computer interfaces intimidating.

The desktop computer UI is very much filesystem oriented with a file manager being important... as well and item selector dialogs (mini-file managers) within applications.  Apple decided to go the other way and make it application focused by providing screens of application icons and letting the applications themselves act as proxy file managers doing their best to eliminate the need to understand storage concepts.

Microsoft with Metro has adopted a hybrid approach.  Metro is somewhat application oriented but they don't use little icons... Metro is more content oriented.  The application icons are replaced with larger solid color rectangles whereby when the application is used and configured and content is available, these rectangles will preview content.  It is really an application oriented interface but they are presenting it a little differently so they can say they didn't rip anyone off.

The "desktop" is still available in Metro but they have gotten rid of the start button.  No, scratch that... they have NOT gotten rid of the start button, they just have a new start button that is part of the Metro interface which is very search oriented... and they want you to use the new design rather than the desktop oriented one.  Conceptually it really isn't that different but since the start button isn't where it used to be... and is different... many desktop literate users are freaking out.  Microsoft is trying to guide them slowly to the new system but as people start to get to use it they will slowly forget the old way and the new way will become THE way.  After a year or two of the new way, going back to the old way will seem weird and oddly painful... and yes, even clunky... but it is hard to see that from now / here.

This is very similiar to the switch from a menu driven applications menu to a search driven system that we have seen with the Gnome 2 -> 3 switch, the Gnom2 -> Unity switch, and the KDE 3 -> KDE 4 switch.  Having used both Gnome and KDE for many years, at first the search oriented system was painful but eventually I got used to it and it is second nature now.  Why did the desktops switch from menus to search, because the Internet did long ago... and people were used to searching rather than going through tree structure type catalogs and directories of topics for finding information on the Internet.  The search indexes were fairly primative at first but over time they got better... and the shear amount of information exploded and the old way couldn't handle it anyway... and finally Google's searching got so good that whatever it was you were searching for was usually at or near the top of the results.

I believe Metro, iOS merging with Mac OS X, and the newer Desktop Environments on Linux will eventually win over the majority of people.  I primarily use Linux and at first I was rebelious towards the changes in the Linux desktop systems but finally I saw the light. :)

-- 
TYL,
Scott Dowdle - Belgrade, Montana



[#] Thu Jul 26 2012 14:37:01 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: Metro for the masses

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The new UI's on several platforms eliminate the distinction between an application that is running and an application that is installed/available. That works fine on a mobile, where applications know from the start that they may be asked at any time to save their state and go away (in Android, the app at the bottom of the stack falls off when the operating system needs more resources for what's up front; I imagine Apple does the same).

This may or may not be the right thing to do on a desktop, especially with legacy applications which aren't expecting this behavior. Sometimes when the user clicks on an icon he wants another copy of the program to be started, not to simply focus the copy that's already running. I think the newer versions of Gnome Shell let you right click on the icon to select which action you want to take. I know Apple briefly removed the little arrows on icons that distinguished a running application from a startable one, and there was enough backlash on that decision for them to put the arrows back.

I don't think the new UI's suck because they are search based. They suck because they are optimized for touch even on non-touch devices. They suck because they assume the user is operating with the short attention span associated with mobiles, even when seated at a desk.

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