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[#] Thu Sep 01 2011 12:57:23 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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I absolutely agree on the raid arguments (for backups), but I have to say that I love Raid6. The issue that IG had is a common scenario, most of the time you bought 3-4 harddrives from the same production line on the same date, so if one of them fails for any reason, chances are high that a second one will fail too. Due to wear out, technical failure, old age, whatever. On a Raid5 your lost then. And I have seen a hotspare in a NAS being in the same used state (SMART-wise) as the 3 actual raid disks.

I also had a raid which silently died, ripping the fs slowly appart without any notice and completely imploded when fsck came to the rescue....



[#] Thu Sep 01 2011 13:03:35 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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well, maybe if you need to do in kernel code; which usually shouldn't be neccesary.



[#] Thu Sep 01 2011 13:41:27 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I'm really liking this image backup thing, and I'll like it even more once I have a chance to test my backups :)

Anyway, I'm noting that the overall performance of the system is quite good; I don't notice a lag in the interactive portions of the system even when a full backup is running.

[#] Thu Sep 01 2011 13:50:19 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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@IG: What do you have your backup intervals set up to?

My normal server backups hit every night at midnight, but i use the "freeze and snapshot" method for backups.

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Thu Sep 01 2011 15:11:10 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I simply dropped the backup script into the /etc/cron.daily directory. Since there is no measurable impact on the system it can run when it wants to.

I just finished validating a backup by spinning up a new VM using the replicated image. As expected, I got a "your system was not shut down cleanly" message, but it handled that just fine; the restored image was time-consistent and all of my services started up with no problem.

LS: to clarify a bit -- what I'm doing here is an LVM snapshot of a filesystem containing qcow2 images, not a qcow2 image with a snapshot inside it. If it were the latter then I would definitely expect consistency problems.

[#] Thu Sep 01 2011 15:50:45 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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And just to clarify... there's nothing definitely, obviously wrong with what you're doing, it just makes me a little nervous. I think doing it in the guest means that the guest has more control over exactly when the snapshot happens, so it doesn't happen for example in the middle of some fsync() system call that some process is performing. You get something that's maybe a little bit better than mere crash-consistency. you can also use an fs freeze/thaw.

[#] Thu Sep 01 2011 15:48:23 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I might have taken the same script you're running now, just run it in the guest instead of the host. (Assuming the guest's virtual hard disk is formatted with LVM.)

[#] Thu Sep 01 2011 17:06:17 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Sep 1 2011 12:07pm from IGnatius T Foobar @uncnsrd
Whoa ... hold the show a minute here.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON you would have to open source your code

just because you're running it on Linux. The GNU GPL is only "viral"

if you combine your code with their code. Microsoft spent a
considerable amount of time pushing the myth that "GPL will eat all
your stuff!!!1" but that myth was dismissed quite some time ago.


Note that I wrote 'almost certainly'. I haven't deeply researched the matter, because of the other issue.

I suspect that I would need to compile against other code that is certainly GPLed in some fashion. And I don't just mean libraries underlying the operating system or anything like that.

I'll just have to hope that, someday, I'll have the chance to work with Linux in some more friendly environment than this one.
But, I suspect that will be challanging... the majority of my working experience has involved Windows OS. I don't know how many firms would take interest in hiring someone with little to no experience in Linux for system level programming.

[#] Fri Sep 02 2011 02:57:35 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Thu Sep 01 2011 17:06:17 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored
I suspect that I would need to compile against other code that is certainly GPLed in some fashion. And I don't just mean libraries underlying the operating system or anything like that.

I'll just have to hope that, someday, I'll have the chance to work with Linux in some more friendly environment than this one.
But, I suspect that will be challanging... the majority of my working experience has involved Windows OS. I don't know how many firms would take interest in hiring someone with little to no experience in Linux for system level programming.

many (if not most) libraries are lgpl, which means you mustn't staticaly link them, but everything else is ok.

many are also bsd style licenses.

QT for example is dual licensed: GPL & QPL & proprietary (maybe they dropped the QPL meanwhile) which means, if you want to write closed source software this is possible; you simply need to buy a license from them. You can however develop your tool with the gpl version, as long as you don't distribute it, you simply have to provide yourself with the source.

the only constraint in that case would be, that your programm would have to quote the user the lgpl'ed code that was used on startup. For example my garmin gps enlists libexpat on bootup.

On linux you've got the powers of valgrind. You should try compiling it using winelib; use a VM or AndLinux for that.

*hint* you may work on citadel to collect some linux experience ;-)



[#] Fri Sep 02 2011 08:20:21 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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A lot of closed source, even on the kernel level comes to mind:

Nvidia Display drivers (and tools) (which taints the kernel license when installed)

VIA S3 Display driver (and tools) (aka the reinvention of crappyness, but hell, it exists)

Bitdefender/F-Prot antivir clients

Virtualbox until recently, right now only the USB2.0 and some other oracle tagged stuff

VMWare

Intel's Tivoli Storage management

Skype

Even some crippled groupwares, with their sorry excuse of a community version, as a tribute to the GPL'ed stuff they are using.

Some games

Some Javaapps are tagged as unfree (codewise) and run under Linux.

So there is lots of weirdness out there and not everything has to be free on a linux. Heck, lots of settopboxes and other embedded devices run a linux kernel and some propriety environment, remember the AVM Fritzbox GPL lawsuit recently posted here.

Also, AGPL is out there.



[#] Fri Sep 02 2011 10:26:36 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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My retirement goals have always included working on an open source project.
And I have wanted to work on a BBS since 1989 or so. BBSes are currently obsolete as the modem-handling, phone-line using software of old, but exist today as web boards, etc.

I'm not sure if IG would want me invading Citadel with my C++-ish ways, but I probably could help interface with certain libraries.

[#] Fri Sep 02 2011 16:17:32 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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snapshots are COW-based...

Fucking MOO! I say!

[#] Fri Sep 02 2011 16:27:29 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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Don't moo!  I was heartbroken when Citadel86 went from M)oo to M)eet user.  It was never the same.



[#] Fri Sep 02 2011 16:42:41 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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It's starting to sound to me like the cost of a windows license is cheaper than the cost of a lawyer to figure out if any and all software you're going to be writing software for/against/with will conflict with the zillions of linux licenses.
I never thought of it before, but it sounds like the free software people are shooting themselves in the foot by having so many different incompatible licenses. Actually I don't know if they're incompatible or not, but I'm certainly not going to pay a lawyer to find out.
Now that's just a cost-of-business kinda thing. I fully support anybody who wants to write any software and put as many or as few licenses on it having to do with statically building or non distribution or sale, etc... But you gotta figure, the end user (a software development company) is going to take a short soft look at "buy a windows license or figure out what we can and can't easily use in the free software world."
I tell ya, I'm a unix guy through and through, but at this point after hearing about all these different licenses, I'd lean towards going with windows/.

[#] Fri Sep 02 2011 19:20:58 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Well, some people have managed to figure out how to make Linux work for them.
I do occasionally see boxes that have Linux as a core operating system, who do not seem to have opened their own source code. But I don't know how many of those appliances were much more than a router or some other IP infrastructure sort of thing.

[#] Sat Sep 03 2011 13:06:59 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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My doctors office runs an app on what obviously is a Gnome desktop (foot instead of a "start" button).



[#] Sat Sep 03 2011 15:28:15 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Well, I found in some highprizing tools in the MS world, you pay less for the software, but more for the dongle. Around 5k€ per dongle is nothing odd here, for some CAD software or some broken piece of crappy eyetracking thing, for example. The eyetracking guys even give away their software. (And their algorythms sucks so bad, it needs several days for a two hour session to postprocess and mark eyemovement. And it doesnt use threads. And doesnt work in 64bit systems. Also not in WinXP mode on Win7 64bit. Oh and there is a free algo running in matlab which does it better. Also, their hardware is unergonomical and not really field approved. And they use DVD quality for the recorded video of what you are watching, but crappy resolution/bitrate AND only 25frames for the actual tracking of your eye movement....)

And I don't think you need a lawyer, there are so many companies (even groupware companies I never heard of until I did some research) charging ubarprized services or threatening everyone who fiddles with their closed source software in the Linux world.



[#] Sun Sep 04 2011 17:49:22 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Fr Sep 02 2011 16:26:36 CEST von fleeb @ Uncensored
I'm not sure if IG would want me invading Citadel with my C++-ish ways, but I probably could help interface with certain libraries.

I am a huge fan of this idea! Bring forth jingle support on the xmpp server, integrate libmapi or libsyncml! :)



[#] Mon Sep 05 2011 05:11:34 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Sun Sep 04 2011 17:49:22 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored
Fr Sep 02 2011 16:26:36 CEST von fleeb @ Uncensored
I'm not sure if IG would want me invading Citadel with my C++-ish ways, but I probably could help interface with certain libraries.

I am a huge fan of this idea! Bring forth jingle support on the xmpp server, integrate libmapi or libsyncml! :)

or help us reading, understanding, and libev'ing that c++ openid 2 implementation.

they're doing lots of c++ vodoo in there, which goes beyound my understanding.

since our implementation mustn't be synchroneus, and should use expat, somebody being able to read that code would be nice ;-)

sending asynchroneus http requests is rather easy, we have a libev/libcurl integration in place, but preparing the post data and parsing the replies will be more complicated...

you might lears some bits about eventdriven / asynchroneous programming along the way.



[#] Mon Sep 05 2011 08:07:00 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I've become comfortable with asynchronous programming via boost's ASIO library.
That library provides a very nice framework for event-driven, asynchronous programming that can even be multithreaded if desired (although I hate multiple threads as a rule).

But, yeah, I was thinking about your OpenID issue earlier. Maybe IG and I should have a video conference sometime before I consider jumping into that.
I can figure out the OpenID library, I'm sure, and I know how to bridge between C and C++ easily. But I suspect I'd need to know some details about how you want to use OpenID in the project, to keep the bridging from getting completely insane (e.g. I don't think it'd be wise to build a 'generic' bridge between C & C++ for this library... just something more focused for how you intend to use OpenID).

Before such a conference, I ought to read up on that OpenID library, so I can think about the problem more clearly. Hell, I might have a good use for such knowlege at my current job, depending on how well the thing might work for us.

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