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[#] Fri Sep 02 2011 16:27:29 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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Don't moo!  I was heartbroken when Citadel86 went from M)oo to M)eet user.  It was never the same.



[#] Fri Sep 02 2011 16:42:41 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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It's starting to sound to me like the cost of a windows license is cheaper than the cost of a lawyer to figure out if any and all software you're going to be writing software for/against/with will conflict with the zillions of linux licenses.
I never thought of it before, but it sounds like the free software people are shooting themselves in the foot by having so many different incompatible licenses. Actually I don't know if they're incompatible or not, but I'm certainly not going to pay a lawyer to find out.
Now that's just a cost-of-business kinda thing. I fully support anybody who wants to write any software and put as many or as few licenses on it having to do with statically building or non distribution or sale, etc... But you gotta figure, the end user (a software development company) is going to take a short soft look at "buy a windows license or figure out what we can and can't easily use in the free software world."
I tell ya, I'm a unix guy through and through, but at this point after hearing about all these different licenses, I'd lean towards going with windows/.

[#] Fri Sep 02 2011 19:20:58 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Well, some people have managed to figure out how to make Linux work for them.
I do occasionally see boxes that have Linux as a core operating system, who do not seem to have opened their own source code. But I don't know how many of those appliances were much more than a router or some other IP infrastructure sort of thing.

[#] Sat Sep 03 2011 13:06:59 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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My doctors office runs an app on what obviously is a Gnome desktop (foot instead of a "start" button).



[#] Sat Sep 03 2011 15:28:15 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Well, I found in some highprizing tools in the MS world, you pay less for the software, but more for the dongle. Around 5k€ per dongle is nothing odd here, for some CAD software or some broken piece of crappy eyetracking thing, for example. The eyetracking guys even give away their software. (And their algorythms sucks so bad, it needs several days for a two hour session to postprocess and mark eyemovement. And it doesnt use threads. And doesnt work in 64bit systems. Also not in WinXP mode on Win7 64bit. Oh and there is a free algo running in matlab which does it better. Also, their hardware is unergonomical and not really field approved. And they use DVD quality for the recorded video of what you are watching, but crappy resolution/bitrate AND only 25frames for the actual tracking of your eye movement....)

And I don't think you need a lawyer, there are so many companies (even groupware companies I never heard of until I did some research) charging ubarprized services or threatening everyone who fiddles with their closed source software in the Linux world.



[#] Sun Sep 04 2011 17:49:22 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Fr Sep 02 2011 16:26:36 CEST von fleeb @ Uncensored
I'm not sure if IG would want me invading Citadel with my C++-ish ways, but I probably could help interface with certain libraries.

I am a huge fan of this idea! Bring forth jingle support on the xmpp server, integrate libmapi or libsyncml! :)



[#] Mon Sep 05 2011 05:11:34 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Sun Sep 04 2011 17:49:22 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored
Fr Sep 02 2011 16:26:36 CEST von fleeb @ Uncensored
I'm not sure if IG would want me invading Citadel with my C++-ish ways, but I probably could help interface with certain libraries.

I am a huge fan of this idea! Bring forth jingle support on the xmpp server, integrate libmapi or libsyncml! :)

or help us reading, understanding, and libev'ing that c++ openid 2 implementation.

they're doing lots of c++ vodoo in there, which goes beyound my understanding.

since our implementation mustn't be synchroneus, and should use expat, somebody being able to read that code would be nice ;-)

sending asynchroneus http requests is rather easy, we have a libev/libcurl integration in place, but preparing the post data and parsing the replies will be more complicated...

you might lears some bits about eventdriven / asynchroneous programming along the way.



[#] Mon Sep 05 2011 08:07:00 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I've become comfortable with asynchronous programming via boost's ASIO library.
That library provides a very nice framework for event-driven, asynchronous programming that can even be multithreaded if desired (although I hate multiple threads as a rule).

But, yeah, I was thinking about your OpenID issue earlier. Maybe IG and I should have a video conference sometime before I consider jumping into that.
I can figure out the OpenID library, I'm sure, and I know how to bridge between C and C++ easily. But I suspect I'd need to know some details about how you want to use OpenID in the project, to keep the bridging from getting completely insane (e.g. I don't think it'd be wise to build a 'generic' bridge between C & C++ for this library... just something more focused for how you intend to use OpenID).

Before such a conference, I ought to read up on that OpenID library, so I can think about the problem more clearly. Hell, I might have a good use for such knowlege at my current job, depending on how well the thing might work for us.

[#] Mon Sep 05 2011 22:46:53 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The library in question is called "libopkele" and it is in C++. I have no idea how dothebart's asynchronous framework is built -- I haven
t looked at it yet. We're holding off on integrating that until after Citadel 8 is out.

[#] Tue Sep 06 2011 11:37:48 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I probably can't get to it that quickly anyway. I'm notoriously slow... burnout, heh.

[#] Tue Sep 06 2011 12:54:57 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I looked at an openid implementation once to see about using it rather than writing an authentication system.
I eventually gave up. The last thing openid resembles is something that has anything to do with authentication or authorization.
Writing your own is easier.

[#] Tue Sep 06 2011 13:18:40 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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This would explain why it is used by just a few sites... but after 10 years of heavy internet usage, I am sick and tired of creating accounts and registering on forums (just to use their search function or for other minor things). If all of them would just use openid or oauth or whatever is the current hip thing, it would be a blessing.



[#] Tue Sep 06 2011 15:08:38 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Hmm... maybe someone needs to create an easier library.

[#] Tue Sep 06 2011 20:06:46 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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Hmm... maybe someone needs to create an easier library.

I think the library is a bad implementation of a bad idea is the real problem.

[#] Tue Sep 06 2011 20:17:18 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I dunno... it seems to me that having a third party for authenticating isn't a bad idea. I hate having to log into this place, then this place, then this other place, all because everyone maintains their own authentication schemes for whatever reason. The idea is good, really... and it could cut down on some of the problems associated with authentication, too, as you don't have to do as much.

Er, don't have as many sites whose password you need to maintain, is what I mean.

This said, maybe there's a better way to handle authentication in this fashion.
I couldn't say, really, as I haven't studied this problem very well.

And, well, I'm guessing the implementation probably is bad if so many people have trouble with it.

[#] Wed Sep 07 2011 00:09:26 EDT from the8088er @ Uncensored

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Hm. I jsust setup the current version of Debian on a 180 MHz PowerPC box for a single purpose machine. I'm not very Linuxy, I mostly use FreeBSD for this kind of stuff but Debian was easier to install.

Every other box I have that gets its IP by DHCP I can access thru its hostname. But for some reason tehe Debian box doesn't register its hostname with the DHCP server. Anyone know how I may go about fixing this?

[#] Wed Sep 07 2011 04:03:47 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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8088, you do know that powerpc is non intel? ;-P

debian configures that stuff via /etc/network/interfaces

most probably you can set dhcp parameters there too.



[#] Wed Sep 07 2011 10:05:49 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I eventually gave up. The last thing openid resembles is something

that has anything to do with authentication or authorization.

I did end up writing my own OpenID 1 implementation for just that reason.
However I do think the protocol does need to be as complex as it is, because it is a three way handshake that requires different levels of trust in each direction.

OpenID 2, on the other hand, is more complex than it needs to be. There were issues that needed to be addressed, but there were also four different proposals for how to move forward, and instead of picking one they simply smashed them all together.

[#] Wed Sep 07 2011 11:27:41 EDT from the8088er @ Uncensored

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Yes indeed it is :)

In /etc/network/interfaces I have:

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

imary network interface
allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp

Nothing there really jumps out at me.

[#] Wed Sep 07 2011 16:00:03 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I dunno... it seems to me that having a third party for authenticating

isn't a bad idea. I hate having to log into this place, then this

Sure. ONE third party so everybody can write to them. Wouldn't be so bad. But this all things for all people crap doesn't work.

Also, there is a solution to the zillions of logins you need all the time: browsers remembering and autofilling passwords.
Sure it's a pain that you still have to register on all these webistes, but once you do, you never have to login again by typing your credentials, you just click login, because the browser did autofill for you.
And while I'm not saying that having a zillion passwords is great, it's better than having 1 and then having that 1 compromised so anybody who gets your PW can be you on lots of sites. Like your bank.

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