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[#] Thu Aug 04 2011 09:27:26 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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However. I'm actually a fan of this particular instace. I'm installing gnome 3 now in a VM so I can see what it's like.
When the iphone first came out, I realized that for most people, this is what the PC should have been 20 years ago. But that shouldn't deny the few tech people a power user style interface. And that's where they went wrong here. Taking away the good rather than making it an option.

[#] Thu Aug 04 2011 11:02:44 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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well ain't that I riot.
So before I get to gnome 3 I thought I'd try unity. I install the latest ubuntu, and it finally restarts and says "you don't appear to have the hardware required to run unity, please select ubuntu classic when it starts up." or something like that.
So what happens when they ditch 'classic'? I'm just SOL?

[#] Thu Aug 04 2011 11:41:57 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I seem to recall hearing that Unity uses desktop composition. Try enabling the 3D acceleration in e.g. VirtualBox and install their guest additions...

(last time I checked under Linux, though, their 3D acceleration was slower than software rendering)

[#] Thu Aug 04 2011 13:12:51 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I'm running this vbox vm on my work machine.
which is a .... I shit you not... a 3Ghz P4.

I'm not going for performance here. :-)

[#] Thu Aug 04 2011 16:40:54 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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After much farting around I just couldn't get unity to work.
I installed guest additions and turned on 3d (I found a help page saying the same thing) and the unity probe verifier script thingi said no go.
So now I'm trying fedora.
Good thing I have all these extra CPU cycles on my machine so I can actually do work while installing an OS in a vm.

[#] Thu Aug 04 2011 16:41:26 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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HOLY SHIT. There's a FUCKING BIRD on my desktop.

[#] Thu Aug 04 2011 21:02:23 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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I liked early builds of Gnome-Shell (except for the crashes), but I didn't like the way it changed over the last few iterations. I used Unity for a while on my netbook and didn't find it as bad as people said, but it wasn't really what I wanted, either. Right now I'm using... um... whatever the default is in Linux Mint Debian Edition.

[#] Fri Aug 05 2011 15:03:33 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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after many tries I was never able to get fedora 15 to fire up gnome 3.
But finally after much upgrading of vbox I got unity to run.
I see what you mean.
If only I had a touch screen monitor and no keyboard, then maybe this would work.

But just think... those guys who were developing those graphical languages where you drag the decision box (the if statement) onto the program editor page to add an if statement to your program.... those guys were years if not DECADES ahead of their time. The desktop environment FINALLY caught up with them. :-)

[#] Fri Aug 05 2011 16:24:20 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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Something else I notice

With this 4th vm on my machine I finally bumped the 8gig mark and started using swap.
Drives hold more and more data all the time but they haven't gotten any faster. so now that program absorb gobs of memory at a time instead of mobs of memory, the demand for swap grows quickly and in big jumps and using swap is really damn slow.
There's going to become a point where it won't be feasible to use swap anymore and you'll just have to have enough memory on the machine to do everything you want.

[#] Fri Aug 05 2011 17:24:39 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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When doing serious amounts of virtualization you need to know about "balloon drivers"

All virtual machines ought to have a balloon driver installed. It should be part of the "guest tools" suite of your hypervisor.

The idea is that the guest can swap more efficiently than the host. When the host tells the guest that it's low on memory, the guest starts allocating memory (inflating the balloon) and filling it with zeroes. This causes the guest to stop using memory for things like disk buffers, and it causes other applications to swap to disk if necessary. The hypervisor sees all those pages full of zeroes and maps them all to a single page full of zeroes on the host.

By doing this they avoid the host having to swap out memory consumed by guests, which is *extremely* inefficient and undesirable.

[#] Sun Aug 07 2011 13:29:24 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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By doing this they avoid the host having to swap out memory consumed

by guests, which is *extremely* inefficient and undesirable.

Right, well, I didn't think Xen supports that anyway. The desired way to approach the problem is to "partition" the machine... host should never swap.

We care more about predictable performance than having the maximum amount of memory available.

[#] Sun Aug 07 2011 19:31:05 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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By "partition" I suppose you are saying not to oversubscribe the host's physical memory, and that is indeed a good best-practice. In everyday operation, though, I have found that you can usually oversubscribe by 25-30% with no ill effects, particularly if the guest VM's are running the same operating system and you are running a hypervisor that deduplicates identical pages. Still, you've got to be paying attention to what you're doing, which can't be counted on when you're running a cloud with millions of virtual machines.

[#] Sun Aug 07 2011 21:24:44 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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the computational complexity of de-duping identical pages is not exactly trivial...

[#] Mon Aug 08 2011 13:40:04 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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oh, and since I have this vm sitting here I decided to install chromeos on it just to see my CPU utilization stay high.

First thing I noticed is that google is no longer hosting it at, but it's been moved to

Now isn't that interesting. Are they abandoning it already, realizing that android is where the small PC future is at?

[#] Mon Aug 08 2011 13:38:55 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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but if you can pawn off that work on an idle part of a processor or something, it's a win.
But I guess considering the alternative is to just buy more cheap memory, that's probably the way to go.
But again the point, since we appear to agree that you shouldn't oversubscribe your machine's physical memory.... why do we even need swap anymore?

[#] Thu Aug 11 2011 16:06:36 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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if I remember right the big difference between kernel 1 and 2 was dynamically loadable modules, depmod and insmod and so on.
So what's the big shift for kernel 3?

[#] Thu Aug 11 2011 17:40:31 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Nothing, it is just the number game all browsers play atm.

And since some distros rename it to 2.6.40 and others call it 3.0.0 for compatibility reasons, I think Linus was on meth when he decided to go for the 3.

[#] Fri Aug 12 2011 15:35:51 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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frankly as stupid as the version number game with the browser seems, it's not, what's stupid was the point versions.
In the good old days, 1.0 was perfect and bug free. 1.1 was major feature additions. Even that didn't make sense.
With the kernel at least there was some rational to the even/odd version numbers, but you still didn't need point releases for that.
odd numbers are dev and even are stable releases.

When you could movie sequels, do you say 2 if it's good and 1.1 if it's bad?
Everything should be versioned by whole numbers, it's assinine and only creates confusion otherwise

I stepped in gasoline and now everwhere I go smells like gas.

[#] Fri Aug 12 2011 15:40:48 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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it also occurs to me that people are clamoring for a gnome 2 fork, and you just KNOW 20 groups are going to pop up and do it. that oughta be fun.
What they really need is a gnome 2 rewrite. Throw the old one away, and write a new one from scratch that is compatible.

[#] Mon Aug 15 2011 22:15:25 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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the computational complexity of de-duping identical pages is not
exactly trivial...

...and yet nearly all major hypervisors do it.

As with everything, you have to match the deployment strategy to the workload.
Around here we're fond of saying "Speed costs money -- how fast do you want to go?" If no compromise on performance will be accepted, you turn off deduplication and buy enough physical RAM to avoid oversubscription. For most shared hosting environments, the majority of subscribers aren't willing to pay for that.

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