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[#] Thu Jul 21 2011 17:16:29 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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btw, this is the problem/solution i tried last time and never worked for me:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1742952

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 00:40:38 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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nvm. solved my own problem.

At the end of the 11.04 upgrade it asks if you want to remove the "obsolete" and "unused" packages and dependencies. I said "Keep Them" and all worked out fine.

I don't really like the Unity desktop, so I logged out and chose the "Ubuntu Classic" session at the bottom during login.

All is right with the world now :)

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 09:39:44 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The problem with that strategy is that Canonical has already announced that the "Classic" desktop will be discontinued in the next release. That's why I switched my desktop to Xfce (sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop). I don't want to have to go through another change this fall.

I was using my netbook last night and noticed that Unity does work well on it. Imagine that: it's where they began work on that UI and it's where it works well, when there's limited screen real estate.

I hate all this convergence crap. Each device should run a UI that is designed for it.

[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 09:47:42 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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i3 scales nice from tiny to big screens.



[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 10:24:07 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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@IG <like>

I'll install xfce when I get a chance. I've always loved Xfce, so clean and well fitting to my 2 screen setup with nVidia graphics. I only did the "Ubuntu Classic" since it was an easy fix for in a hurry.

It would seem, updating to 11.04 was less painful this time. Though, I did the Ford (or is it someone else I'm thinking of from here?... my memory fails me) approach and waited several months to actually do the update.

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 10:25:55 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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Fri Jul 22 2011 09:39:44 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
I hate all this convergence crap. Each device should run a UI that is designed for it.

And I'm on the same boat here. I hate the new proposed UI for Win8... and Unity sucks for large screens (I have 2 monitors at 1680 x 1050)

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 14:30:27 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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so I ran the sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop

Installed beautifully. just waiting until I get home to see the results. I'm assuming I have to choose that option at the login screen the same way I chose "Ubuntu Classic"

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Sat Jul 23 2011 08:50:21 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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i3 scales nice from tiny to big screens.

True -- it's ugly at *any* resolution. :)

I tried the tiling window manager thing ... it just didn't work for me. I seem to benefit from having the corners of buried windows sticking out from under the top ones.

[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 00:23:58 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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If only GEM had a decent terminal emulator.  Oops, wrong room.



[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 09:12:25 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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You could always adapt it yourself; GEM is available as GPL-licensed open source software now.

It's a shame that GEM has even been bypassed by the "this old software is perfect for today's resource-constrained embedded systems" window of opportunity.

Heh. Look at that. According to [ http://www.deltasoft.com/news.htm ] it seems that when Caldera bought the GEM sources from Novell (as part of their acquisition of the assets of Digital Research, such as DR-DOS) in 1997, they had the intention of using GEM as a platform for mobile computers and thin clients.

I wonder if there's anything it would be good for today.

[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 12:21:13 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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yea, realy loved that.



[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 12:58:01 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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DR-DOS) in 1997, they had the intention of using GEM as a platform for

mobile computers and thin clients.

Might have been plausible if they'd really hacked on it hard for a number of years and with a lot of foresight... but Android and iOS have that sewn up right now... and with that DOS kernel, you really have to wonder how well it would have worked...

[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 13:20:29 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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geos was also set to fill this gap and failed.



[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 13:33:38 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The same could have been said about 16-bit Windows, but I guess in that case you need to have a nascent market and a megalomaniac monopolist to pull off that strategy.

I think it's just nostalgia at this point. Kind of like all those people who still want to petition IBM to release the source code to OS/2's WorkPlace Shell so that it can become The Next Great Desktop (tm).

And now the GNOME and KDE people are fighting over who gets to use the words "System Settings" in their desktop. Personally I think that this isn't actually happening, but instead, secret agents from Slashdot have infiltrated both camps in order to stoke the flame wars.

[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 20:49:41 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I think it's just nostalgia at this point. Kind of like all those
people who still want to petition IBM to release the source code to
OS/2's WorkPlace Shell so that it can become The Next Great Desktop
(tm).

Well they can't, or at least shouldn't. OS/2 was spun off/sold to another business which is still selling & supporting the product. The code might no longer be IBM's to release.

[#] Mon Jul 25 2011 02:31:49 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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So Jul 24 2011 20:49:41 EDT von LoanShark @ Uncensored
I think it's just nostalgia at this point. Kind of like all those
people who still want to petition IBM to release the source code to
OS/2's WorkPlace Shell so that it can become The Next Great Desktop
(tm).
Well they can't, or at least shouldn't. OS/2 was spun off/sold to another business which is still selling & supporting the product. The code might no longer be IBM's to release.

yes, it is. but I wouldn't think that the WPS is their primary featureset; since most customers are using their os/2 computers in automatons having their own UI, or as sort of a "thin client" to run RDP/X11/3270/... applications.

but due to that they probably just got a license, not all rights, its hard for both of them to release the source...

as for the kernel, its probably got lots of additions from Aix, which also makes copyright a problem.



[#] Tue Jul 26 2011 16:38:27 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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migrated our last remaining CentOS instance to Ubuntu today. Kind of sad because it's a superior OS to Ubuntu in most respects that matter, it's just not nearly as well-packaged To The Cloud(tm)(barf).


I expect this will change when CentOS 6 gets nice supported PV-GRUB images built, but that doesn't help us **now**.

[#] Tue Jul 26 2011 17:31:14 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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That's been my primary complaint in recent times ... there's so much in the default build which you have to turn off, particularly if you're installing to a virtual machine. pcscd? Seriously? Does anyone still use those cards?
And then of course they pre-install the "make everything broken by default"
package, also known as SElinux.

I'm sure that most shops will build and use a clonable image for deployment to Teh Cloud (private or public) and we do that too, but it's still a hassle.

I do like the Ubuntu/Debian practice of not enabling much of anything in the default server installation. Although not even enabling the SSH server might be a bit *too* conservative -- they should at least ask about that during the setup.

[#] Tue Jul 26 2011 17:42:09 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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well, found one of these centos VMs running a deamon of 200MB ram just polling for UPDATES?

ain't that a job for cron?

and... I realy dislike exim being the default MTA, and that you needed to know a litte deb-foo to replace it with msmtp

but...

dpkg --set-selections is a real cool feature.



[#] Tue Jul 26 2011 18:18:37 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I'm sure that most shops will build and use a clonable image for
deployment to Teh Cloud (private or public) and we do that too, but
it's still a hassle.

Well you shouldn't have to do this. Distributors should package a sensible image for you, with all that physical-machine stuff turned off, ssh turned on and just about nothing else.

And our management tools provider (RightScale) does this. The images they provide are everything you want in most respects, and you can get started quickly with building install scripts to layer your own stuff on top of the image. All well and good.

The only problem is this one little niggling pesky detail - the images aren't PV-GRUB based, so you can't upgrade the kernel without rebuilding the image. If the images were just PV-GRUB based, we'd be able to do "yum update kernel-xen && reboot", or incantations to that effect.
Since I refuse to fall into the trap of maintaining our own images, Ubuntu it is. I might have stuck with CentOS and bit the bullet and built an image, if 99% of our servers weren't on Ubuntu already before I started working here...

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