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[#] Tue Jul 19 2011 21:36:49 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Ok, if CentOS 6 has also picked up Upstart, I guess we're stuck with it then. Which means routing around its foibles. I had to do a global search/replace on my sshd-releated init scripts on our Ubuntu hosts to change "service ssh reload" to "kill -HUP `cat /var/run/sshd.pid`". And since RightScale doesn't actually have a global search/replace, I didn't do it. ;) So we may be playing whack-a-mole with that one for a while, here.

Hopefully CentOS was a little more enlightened and didn't make all their reload scripts directly depend on init; it doesn't seem necessary. In particular, I think OpenSSH upstream will never accept a patch to eliminate the extra fork() call; they're depending on it for the randomized PID.

[#] Wed Jul 20 2011 09:56:38 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Wait a minute, HAL is deprecated? Why? What are they replacing it with?

[#] Wed Jul 20 2011 10:47:18 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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dbus?



[#] Wed Jul 20 2011 12:22:26 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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udev, it seems. [ http://wiki.debian.org/HALRemoval ]

D-Bus is just an IPC mechanism. It's going to be there regardless of what device manager is sitting underneath.

[#] Wed Jul 20 2011 15:29:41 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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udev is the replacement for devfs, the thing replacing HAL is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeviceKit, with its minions ukit and upower. Under the reign of PolicyKit they let you mount your usb sticks and whatnot as normal user. And it is easy, have a look here: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-858965-highlight-.html <- one monster of a firstpost and 12 pages of addendum...

And of course you need not only ConsoleKit, PolicyKit and DeviceKit, no, you will also need PAM as it seems. And I hate PAM. I once had all my systems PAMfree.

The funny thing is, that it seems that PolKit replaced PolicyKit and the DeviceKit stuff  is merged into (lib)udev...

Stuff like this and the "Xorg goes HAL, all will be golden now. Wait, we are removing HAL and we will not go with the next hype since they deprecate it before anyone converts to it" incidents are what I ment with "hey, lets reimplement it again, differently". It is the complete opposite to the MS route who stick with a stupid concept for years. But both ways suck.



[#] Wed Jul 20 2011 18:00:32 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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MS sticking with a stupid concept for years isn't exactly their standard procedure either. What they do is introduce the new wonderful API to end all API's, to be their big new thing going forward --- every two years or so.

[#] Wed Jul 20 2011 21:16:02 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

Subject: PAM

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MMMMmmmmm PAM.  I wonder if I still have the thread where I argued with Patrick Volkerding (Slackware) about my need for a PAM package (and my naive thoughts on how easy it would be).  Early in my messing around with Linux and found that I did not in fact want to recompile all that needed to be recompiled.  Turns out there are folks that ended up packaging linux-pam for Slack, but that was years later - and I used their work to my advantage when I needed to install VMWare Server on Slackware.  Being lazy pays off some times :-)

Ax25



[#] Thu Jul 21 2011 17:15:28 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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So, I've been putting-off updating my Ubuntu10.10 systems to 11.04 because last time I tried, it screwed up xorg and nvidia horribly. I don't want to nuke my system and do a fresh install of 11.04, nor do I want to lose my gfx drivers and have to do back-handed ways to get them back.

Anyone have advice?

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Thu Jul 21 2011 17:16:29 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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btw, this is the problem/solution i tried last time and never worked for me:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1742952

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 00:40:38 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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nvm. solved my own problem.

At the end of the 11.04 upgrade it asks if you want to remove the "obsolete" and "unused" packages and dependencies. I said "Keep Them" and all worked out fine.

I don't really like the Unity desktop, so I logged out and chose the "Ubuntu Classic" session at the bottom during login.

All is right with the world now :)

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 09:39:44 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The problem with that strategy is that Canonical has already announced that the "Classic" desktop will be discontinued in the next release. That's why I switched my desktop to Xfce (sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop). I don't want to have to go through another change this fall.

I was using my netbook last night and noticed that Unity does work well on it. Imagine that: it's where they began work on that UI and it's where it works well, when there's limited screen real estate.

I hate all this convergence crap. Each device should run a UI that is designed for it.

[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 09:47:42 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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i3 scales nice from tiny to big screens.



[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 10:24:07 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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@IG <like>

I'll install xfce when I get a chance. I've always loved Xfce, so clean and well fitting to my 2 screen setup with nVidia graphics. I only did the "Ubuntu Classic" since it was an easy fix for in a hurry.

It would seem, updating to 11.04 was less painful this time. Though, I did the Ford (or is it someone else I'm thinking of from here?... my memory fails me) approach and waited several months to actually do the update.

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 10:25:55 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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Fri Jul 22 2011 09:39:44 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
I hate all this convergence crap. Each device should run a UI that is designed for it.

And I'm on the same boat here. I hate the new proposed UI for Win8... and Unity sucks for large screens (I have 2 monitors at 1680 x 1050)

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Fri Jul 22 2011 14:30:27 EDT from skpacman @ Uncensored

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so I ran the sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop

Installed beautifully. just waiting until I get home to see the results. I'm assuming I have to choose that option at the login screen the same way I chose "Ubuntu Classic"

-- 
Stephen D King
skpacman8629@gmail.com



[#] Sat Jul 23 2011 08:50:21 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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i3 scales nice from tiny to big screens.

True -- it's ugly at *any* resolution. :)

I tried the tiling window manager thing ... it just didn't work for me. I seem to benefit from having the corners of buried windows sticking out from under the top ones.

[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 00:23:58 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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If only GEM had a decent terminal emulator.  Oops, wrong room.



[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 09:12:25 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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You could always adapt it yourself; GEM is available as GPL-licensed open source software now.

It's a shame that GEM has even been bypassed by the "this old software is perfect for today's resource-constrained embedded systems" window of opportunity.

Heh. Look at that. According to [ http://www.deltasoft.com/news.htm ] it seems that when Caldera bought the GEM sources from Novell (as part of their acquisition of the assets of Digital Research, such as DR-DOS) in 1997, they had the intention of using GEM as a platform for mobile computers and thin clients.

I wonder if there's anything it would be good for today.

[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 12:21:13 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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yea, realy loved that.



[#] Sun Jul 24 2011 12:58:01 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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DR-DOS) in 1997, they had the intention of using GEM as a platform for

mobile computers and thin clients.

Might have been plausible if they'd really hacked on it hard for a number of years and with a lot of foresight... but Android and iOS have that sewn up right now... and with that DOS kernel, you really have to wonder how well it would have worked...

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