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[#] Mon Aug 17 2009 09:25:00 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Grub is indeed over-complicated. I suspect that it's because their primary design tenet is "Linux is the kernel and GNU is the operating system" rather than "just boot the damn thing and don't confuse the user."

I must admit that I too have, on occasion, simply switched back to LILO when I couldn't figure out what grub was doing wrong.

[#] Mon Aug 17 2009 10:09:24 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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it starts with grub having its verry own syntax for the devices (which is borrowed from the HURD I think, which was its origin afaik) and ends up with the complicated manual doing it all verry theoreticaly and not on linux / *bsd relevant samples.



[#] Tue Aug 18 2009 04:50:38 EDT from Stefan @ Uncensored

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That's all true. But grub is really powerful and also more flexible than lilo.

So grub: +1 ;-)



[#] Tue Aug 18 2009 08:29:10 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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One of the many things I'd do if I had unlimited free time would be to create a fork of grub called "Stitch" (which is what grub should have been called in the first place) that differs from the mainline in two ways:

1. It would refer to Linux as an operating system

2. It would have documentation

[#] Tue Aug 18 2009 13:20:21 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I figured it out. Then I asked somebody on serverfault just so I could score some points and make sure I was right.

Grub is another perfect example of why linux sucks just as much as everything else LILO was fine, could have been fixed to do whatever was missing, but no. Somebody had to write something new from scratch that was better.
And of course all the distros picked it up because it was newer and better.
Yay. Progress. How I love thee.
They should have called Grub SVN. In fact, they should name any project that pointlessly replaces an existing working project svn just to make the point.
Or maybe they should call it Progress. And just use 7 level deep version numbers to distinguish between them.

Anyway it seems that while everybody implies that root (hd0,0) refers to the boot partition, it does not.
It refers to the partition with the boot directory on it.
Since everybody on the planet but me has a separate boot partition, they all speak of it like that's how it works, but in fact, it just needs to know what the partition to go after is, and you can then refer to everthing else by path.
This install is decades old, who knowshow it got this way. But I think I get everything I need to know to make the raid work.
Just need a few solid contiguous hours to try it out.

[#] Tue Aug 18 2009 13:21:14 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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oh, and the way I read it, grub is supposed to be able to run on and boot all sorts of kernels, not jut linux.
Do I care? It's a fucking linux machine, run the LInux LOader for shits sake.

[#] Tue Aug 18 2009 14:01:55 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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lilo and grub really are completely different approaches to booting a Linux system. lilo relies on knowing a map of the exact disk sectors upon which the kernel and initrd reside. grub knows enough about the filesystem that it can find them on its own. grub also eliminates some arcane requirements about how you lay out your boot partition.

The problem isn't that lilo didn't need to be replaced; it's that grub was a shitty replacement. I would have rather seen syslinux optimized for general-purpose hard disk use.

You're gonna love this: http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-2.en.html

"GRUB 2 has been rewritten from scratch to clean up everything..."

[#] Tue Aug 18 2009 14:45:51 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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Jesus. scripting? dynamic module loading?
It's a fucking kernel loading. It's got to find a file and load it in and run it. That's it. Why do they have to make everything so damn complicated.

What the world needs is more vista.

Vista is the first popular example that I know of where the general population finally said "no I'm not just going to blindly take your shit anymore."

[#] Tue Aug 18 2009 14:48:25 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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maybe once grub gets rewritten it takes a sys-layout more close to what the booted OS has.

some "remap that path to its boot lilo position tool" would also be appropriate.

but then menu.lst would end up being the same since you'd have to run something like 'lilo' to get it created.

anyways... why figure out how the harddisk is caled in some other weird syntax if the OS can do too?



[#] Wed Aug 19 2009 09:57:01 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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grub is probably going to be the next emacs. People will start to say things like "grub is a nice operating system, but it lacks a decent bootloader."

[#] Wed Aug 19 2009 17:09:50 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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Or grub is a nice OS, but it lacks a good kernel to load when you exit.

[#] Thu Aug 20 2009 20:18:39 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I'm afraid.
I'm reading this tutorial
http://howtoforge.org/software-raid1-grub-boot-fedora-8

and they explain step by step how to make a raid array out of a running system
but if I'm reading it right, they say copy partition table from good drive to new drive, make array out of new drive, copy all files to new drive then on page 2 they say reboot (after setting up fstab and grub and all that)
so it boots from te array, then you add the original good drive to the array.
the way I read /proc/mstats, it's going to recover the good drive replacing it with the contents of the new drive, and while copying files is nice, I don't like it.
How do I know beforehand when I add the original good drive to the array with madm that it's going to sync in the direction I want it to?
I really think it thinks that my good drive is the degraded one Blah.

[#] Thu Aug 20 2009 20:59:48 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Yeah, it's a leap of faith, and you are absolutely allowed to have the heebie jeebies.

[#] Thu Aug 20 2009 21:21:30 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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something wrong with the fact that I can't FORCE it to do what I want.

[#] Thu Aug 20 2009 21:50:43 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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What did you want it to do?

[#] Fri Aug 21 2009 07:15:10 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I want to make the existing drive sync/copy to the new empty drive.
But from what I see it looks like to do that you have to make your array with your good drive and add the empty drive to the array.
But thats backwards from what I've heard other people say...

[#] Fri Aug 21 2009 07:29:23 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I'm starting to think you can't do what I want to do.
and now I think I see why.
you have to make the raid array with the new disk, copy all your files ocer over there then add your old disk as a new part of the array and linux will sync the new disk over the old.
I don't want to od that for I fear the copy probably didn't work perfectly.
But I imagine there's someting about the raid array disk that's different than a normal ext3 disk that you can't just add it to the array.
So okay, into the fold I go.

[#] Fri Aug 21 2009 17:29:58 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I'm near giving up
After going through the list of things a million times I finally understand what's going on.
You make the raid device, copy your / drive to it, set up the grub menu.lst, fstab, mtab initrd and grub MBR to all point to the raid device (which I have defined and is working) and then you reboot.
Once you've booted, you now live in the raid device (/dev/md0)
Then you merely hook your original drive up to the raid array, it syncs and voila you're done.
If they just explained that that what was going on, I could have gotten this frustrated much earlier.

so I set up my menu.lst to primarily load the kernel and initrd from the raid device, and failover to my original (still intact) old disk.
And it always fails over.
I boot the machine, run my new grub entry and it says "error 15 file not found."
Lots of stuff on the web about it, none seem to help.

The only thing that's weird is when I go to setup the MBR with grub, you say "root (hd0,0)" which I finally understand what it means, and it's supposed to say Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0xfd or something like that.
Mine says nothing.
But when I run setup (hd0) it says it's doing the right thing to the right drive.
So I assume it's working.
but it can't load initrd/the kernel from the md0 device.
The only other thing I'm thinking, is how on earth does grub know what a raid device is.
The kernel hasn't loaded, the software raid modules haven't loaded, how can stupid little grub have any idea at all where to load initrd from?
So I'm thinking, okay there's a cheap ass mapping somewhere from /dev/md0 to /dev/sdc1 but I don't see where that could be happening.
And for kicks, ( I did this SO many times in various combinations) I tried setting the grub menu.lst to try and load the initrd and kernel from root=/dev/sdc1 (my new drive) and it still says file not found.
So either the grub mbr setup isn't working, or I'm missing something really simple.

[#] Sat Aug 22 2009 07:24:47 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I think I see theproblem, grub isn't mounting the partition when I say root. hmmm...

[#] Mon Aug 24 2009 22:04:06 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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So today I made a major breakthough.
through.

The problem is that grub doesn't recognize the raid 1 partitioned drive
It's supposed to, but it doesn't, so it can't mount it, so it can't find /boot/initrd... so it gives me error 15.
I learned a new neat trick about grub.
It has autocomplete, I knew that, when you do root (<tab><tab> it tells you all of the available drives
But if you do root <tab><tab> then it tries to mount the current filesystem and give you a file list.
And when I do THAT, I get error 17, can't mount the filesystem.
Voila.
so why does everybody say grub can mount a raid 1 type filesystem when it can't.
It's also worth noting, that mount can't mount it either.
mount /dev/sdc1 /mnt/sdc1/
mount: unknown filesystem type 'linux_raid_member'

So what the fuck.

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