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[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 09:36:42 EDT from Chickenhead @ Uncensored

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I agree with you w.r.t was fun being part of the "underground" that was Linux, but it was not fun in the working world. Around late '96 I left my job at HP and found that it was impossible to get a UNIX job anywhere...I was forced unwillingly into the nightmare of Windows programming just to make a living. I hated every minute of it.

The trade rags have blood on their hands for promoting the Microsoft monopoly.
Wasn't '97 the year of the near-death of Apple as well? Ugh.

One thing is certain: I will -never- work a Windows programming job again if I can help it. I can't think of anything that has made me despise programming and computers more than that experience.

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 10:06:24 EDT from isoroku @ Uncensored

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IG, unfortunately I'm sure I cannot discuss any of the technical issues we've
had at this time.

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 10:36:40 EDT from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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That was a tough time indeed. In addition to the BeBox, I had high hopes for
CHRP, which unfortunately died a fast, silent death.

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 10:47:55 EDT from Chickenhead @ Uncensored

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Aug 22 2003 10:36am from Mr.T @uncnsrd
That was a tough time indeed. In addition to the BeBox, I had high hopes
CHRP, which unfortunately died a fast, silent death.

And of course, the perennial white elephant (or Pink in this case)...TALIGENT.
I wonder whatever happened to the code for Pink?

Seems that IBM-led consortiums always collapse under their own weight (the OSF included).

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 10:52:19 EDT from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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Nice call, I forgot about that. Would have been seriously cool.

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 11:14:32 EDT from Chickenhead @ Uncensored

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I thought CHRP and PReP were intended to be the hardware-side of whatever Taligent was working on? Of course it's not like IBM and Apple could even agree on CHRP most of the time (as I recall)...

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 12:11:54 EDT from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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Yeah, pretty much.

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 12:14:48 EDT from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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Didn't mean to save there.

Though the core OSs would be modified to run on CHRP. IIRC, Pink and CHRP
were opposites - Pink would run on any OS, any CHRP-compatible OS would run
on CHRP hardware.

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 12:21:17 EDT from Chickenhead @ Uncensored

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Wasn't OpenDoc a major component of Pink as well? Not sure where OpenDoc ended up after Taligent folded...I heard it had been salvaged by Apple in some form, but that might have been for Rhapsody.

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 13:18:31 EDT from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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OpenDoc was available on Classic for a while, I think in System 8. It never
really went anywhere AFAIK.

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 18:58:29 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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*de*commoditize the PC. Anyone who wanted to build Micro Channel
compatible computers or cards, had to pay royalties to IBM. That's why

yes, that was it, no other reason.

[#] Fri Aug 22 2003 23:09:38 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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And a very good reason it was! No one company should ever be allowed to own a choke point for an entire industry (y'hear that, Bill? Now go to France and drop dead!). There was nothing wrong with Micro Channel from a technology perspective; in fact, it was quite good.

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 20:43:39 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I didn't like the blue handles.

[#] Wed Dec 17 2003 11:13:43 EST from terrorist @ Dog Pound BBS II

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IBM is moving about 5,000 "programming" jobs to China and India according to a news clip on TV this weekend.

[#] Thu Dec 18 2003 08:39:18 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Heh.. that'll work well.

In my rather limited experience, they may be cheaper, and they may be many, but they are not necessarily very good.

But then, I suspect a lot of American programmers aren't so great, either.

Seems there aren't so many decent programmers anyway. So who cares?

[#] Thu Dec 18 2003 08:41:34 EST from Chickenhead @ Uncensored

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It amazes me that they aren't concerned about "national security" with all this programming outsourcing, especially to China of all places.

[#] Thu Dec 18 2003 08:42:54 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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This administration has no concern about 'noational security'. That's only a device for their own insatiable money-grubbing.

I am only moderately suprised not to hear much about Mom and Apple Pie.

[#] Thu Dec 18 2003 08:46:04 EST from Chickenhead @ Uncensored

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I keep forgetting that China has "most favoured nation" trading status (to hell with human rights, I guess, Walmart needs landfill trash for yuppies).

[#] Thu Dec 18 2003 09:31:24 EST from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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It seems that there are relatively few good programmers anywhere.

Speaking in extremely broad terms, it seems to me that there is a cultural
difference between the US/Scandinavian and Asian programmers: a greater
percentage of the technical folks I've met from Asia view it as a trade that
they can support themselves and, if applicable, their familes, with and aren't
all that interested in being good at it for its own sake, while a greater
percentage of the US/Scandinavians look at it more as an art form.

Obviously, there are brilliant and shit practitioners in both groups, but
there does seem to be a general difference in cultural attitude.

[#] Thu Dec 18 2003 10:06:35 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Yeah, broadly speaking, I think you're right.

It's the same in Indea. It's a trade, like anything else. You can wash cars, build houses, program computers. Not an art form.

By and large, we see it as a kind of art. You can paint, write music, program computers. There is a creative spirit in what we do (at least at my job).
I don't see this same spirit amongst the Indian programmers I've worked with.
For them, it feels less passionate, and a hell of a lot less creative. "There is no way to do this, so I cannot do what you need" comes up occasionally with them. When you try to pressure them into doing it anyway, they fail.
But Americans will put up a fight first before failing. We're the kind of people who will try to divide by zero, not because we think it can be done, but because we want to be sure it really can't be done.

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