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[#] Fri Sep 20 2013 12:45:17 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Fri Sep 20 2013 09:49:06 AM EDTfrom vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

 

Citadel:K2NE was text mode only -- this was 1986ish, remember? DialUp??? ;)



Cool.  Dial-up is fancy, but too tethered for my wants.  I find that dial up via cell phone or voip hinders the connection speeds :-)



[#] Fri Sep 20 2013 23:48:32 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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Erik Westgard NY9D was there today to talk about how they support the marathon in Minnesota and the changes and upgrades they've made over the years. Citadel still has a mention on a slide, though it didn't go into any great detail; I'm not entirely certain how it is part of the plan, which seemed somewhat complex.

Actually, I came across that intersection of Citadel and amateur radio in June while trolling around the Intarwebs looking up Citadel things; it's at least part of what got me interested in radio enough to go take the exam.

[#] Sun Sep 22 2013 09:03:01 EDT from vince-q @ Uncensored

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Well, it appears that "you've" done it.
Over the next few weeks I will be exploring hardware (radio) options with the goal of bringing Cascade Lodge BBS into "ham radio land" in northern California with text-only access. For now, at least, the initial idea is 2 meter FM packet. Although the passage of some almost-thirty years since my last such venture (with Citadel:K2NE in southern/central New Jersey) I strongly suspect there are some other options for "later on down the road."

As usual, I'm sure this will be fun. Who knows? It may even be exciting fun!!

--K2NE

[#] Sun Sep 22 2013 22:38:27 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Is there a community of ham radio operators out there from which to draw a potential user base?

[#] Mon Sep 23 2013 00:00:18 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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I just sat in a room with about 150 of them.

Bruce Perens lives in that area, I think. He sat next to me on Saturday.
This was my brush with greatness.

[#] Mon Sep 23 2013 00:02:08 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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I've been posting my thoughts in betweeen child care over hither (www.sigspace.net).

I deeply want to dig into NW Digital Radio's UDR56k project, and also HamWAN.org.
I am almost in the 'red zone' of coverage for that.

[#] Sun Sep 22 2013 22:52:14 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Sun Sep 22 2013 19:38:27 PDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
Is there a community of ham radio operators out there from which to draw a potential user base?

I have absolutely no idea. It's not an issue with me. If I end up doing this and the only user is 'me' I'll still be happy. It in the doing after all.



[#] Tue Sep 24 2013 08:14:48 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Hows that Ham stuff working?

Do you have only one line at once like if you had just one dialin connection?

Or do you primarily do inter-node point to point networking between the hosts?

 



[#] Wed Sep 25 2013 00:57:27 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Tue Sep 24 2013 08:14:48 AM EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

Hows that Ham stuff working?

Do you have only one line at once like if you had just one dialin connection?

Or do you primarily do inter-node point to point networking between the hosts?

 



It works fine for me (packet radio based).  I use some software that works with my modem (in a mode that allows multiple connections) called node:

http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/AX25-HOWTO/x1688.html

I can let authenticated users connect (unfortunately, in the clear as I have not yet wired up my sshd that only encrypts the login bits yet).

It is multi user (you can even chat or post to a room at the same time, but you will be limited by the bandwidth of a 1200 baud connection).  I have not done andy networking between nodes, but that sounds like fun.

I have run an xterm and xclock from a friends computer over x forwarding via a 9600 baud connection on packet radio, and while I can say it was "fun", it was not really useful.

.ax25 



[#] Wed Sep 25 2013 01:22:30 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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Sep 23 2013 12:00am from Sig @uncnsrd
I just sat in a room with about 150 of them.

Bruce Perens lives in that area, I think. He sat next to me on
Saturday.
This was my brush with greatness.


And he replied to my most recent blog post. I am a little weirded out by this.

[#] Wed Sep 25 2013 05:06:51 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Wed Sep 25 2013 00:57:27 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

 

Tue Sep 24 2013 08:14:48 AM EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

Hows that Ham stuff working?

Do you have only one line at once like if you had just one dialin connection?

Or do you primarily do inter-node point to point networking between the hosts?

It works fine for me (packet radio based).  I use some software that works with my modem (in a mode that allows multiple connections) called node:

http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/AX25-HOWTO/x1688.html

I can let authenticated users connect (unfortunately, in the clear as I have not yet wired up my sshd that only encrypts the login bits yet).

It is multi user (you can even chat or post to a room at the same time, but you will be limited by the bandwidth of a 1200 baud connection).  I have not done andy networking between nodes, but that sounds like fun.

I have run an xterm and xclock from a friends computer over x forwarding via a 9600 baud connection on packet radio, and while I can say it was "fun", it was not really useful.

.ax25

Ah, so you don't expose port 504 to the peer then and the citadel client runs on the server..

As mentioned above speed may increase for the user if you do that since i.e. the local echo is a real local echo.

However, you need to find a way howto open / route a tcp port or a unix domain socket through that.



[#] Wed Sep 25 2013 05:09:15 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Wed Sep 25 2013 05:06:51 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored
Wed Sep 25 2013 00:57:27 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

Ah, so you don't expose port 504 to the peer then and the citadel client runs on the server..

As mentioned above speed may increase for the user if you do that since i.e. the local echo is a real local echo.

However, you need to find a way howto open / route a tcp port or a unix domain socket through that.

Oh, it is tcp...

btw, the citadel client can run tls.



[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 00:35:37 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Wed Sep 25 2013 05:09:15 AM EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored
Ah, so you don't expose port 504 to the peer then and the citadel client runs on the server..

As mentioned above speed may increase for the user if you do that since i.e. the local echo is a real local echo.

However, you need to find a way howto open / route a tcp port or a unix domain socket through that.

Oh, it is tcp...

btw, the citadel client can run tls.



I don't run port 504 on packet, but I probably should.  It sounds like a good idea (assuming the client can do some sort of compression).  I have not check the code out to that level.  The reason we don't do tls is that there are some interpretations of monitoring of the ham radio bands in the US that say you must not encrypt anything but the login, and others that say you can encrypt as long as the encryption key is "published" and the encryption method is well known.

I fall back on the first bit (just encrypt the login) and let the rest of the conversation run in the clear with my hacked sshd, but I am probably still wrong.

Is anybody else doing something different with the cit client and port 504 over a slow link that can share experiences?  I am all ears (even though this is the broadband room).  If it gets too far off topic it can probably be moved to save the text client room.



[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 00:41:40 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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P.S. The text mode client (with some hacks) performs well over 1200 baud packet radio.



[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 01:01:43 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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Perhaps we need a radio room. =)

My understanding of the intent behind the no-crypto rules is that anyone listening SHOULD be able to know what you're saying. Protecting authentication seems to me to be reasonable, but I don't know what the learned people think about it.

I definitely wanted to play with citadel over HF (and/or VHF); it was part of what got me looking at radio in the first place. The group in Minnesota that were doing major marathon support had it set up somehow to support their internal comms, but I don't know any details. I really missed an opportunity to ask, since one of the gentlemen presenting on Friday at DCC was describing the whole project. I don't know to what extent Citadel was used, but it still merited a mention on the slide.

[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 12:55:35 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Thu Sep 26 2013 01:01:43 AM EDT from Sig @ Uncensored
Perhaps we need a radio room. =)

My understanding of the intent behind the no-crypto rules is that anyone listening SHOULD be able to know what you're saying. Protecting authentication seems to me to be reasonable, but I don't know what the learned people think about it.

I definitely wanted to play with citadel over HF (and/or VHF); it was part of what got me looking at radio in the first place. The group in Minnesota that were doing major marathon support had it set up somehow to support their internal comms, but I don't know any details. I really missed an opportunity to ask, since one of the gentlemen presenting on Friday at DCC was describing the whole project. I don't know to what extent Citadel was used, but it still merited a mention on the slide.

I second that (radio / ham room).  My last room creation was kind of a failure :-)

I can tell you how Citadel works in that set-up.  As it currently stands, not much.  The Citadel installs would only be used as a back-up communication method.  The CItadel setups are more or less configured (and able to be re-configured) for some Emcomm (emergency communications) groups by copying in standby databases and re-starting.

The race uses a different program (web based) for the data entry (re-written version of Trivnet-DB).  The nice thing about Citadel is that you can get a copy set up and running in a pinch and just connect it to the network if you need the services it provides (which are many).

Ax25



[#] Mon Sep 30 2013 07:47:56 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I have absolutely no idea. It's not an issue with me. If I end up
doing this and the only user is 'me' I'll still be happy. It in the
doing after all.

I am having some trouble envisioning how one would enjoy building a radio system with no one out there to communicate with. I either need new hobbies or a less codependent personality, or maybe both...

[#] Mon Sep 30 2013 08:26:34 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Mon Sep 30 2013 07:47:56 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
I have absolutely no idea. It's not an issue with me. If I end up
doing this and the only user is 'me' I'll still be happy. It in the
doing after all.

I am having some trouble envisioning how one would enjoy building a radio system with no one out there to communicate with. I either need new hobbies or a less codependent personality, or maybe both...

I have been known to wire up the pom (phase of the moon) program to my packet setup just for fun.  It can be fun to experiment with things like that (even if they don't amount to being useful for everyone).  To have a service available and or prove you can make it work is sometimes the point for later projects and or endeavors.  I don't think the fitsat-1 (satelite that blinks morse code using led's was practical either, but probably fun):

http://spacewatchtower.blogspot.com/2012/07/japan-satellite-leds-to-twinkle-as.html



[#] Mon Sep 30 2013 19:39:59 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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I am having some trouble envisioning how one would enjoy building a
radio system with no one out there to communicate with. I either need

new hobbies or a less codependent personality, or maybe both...



Ah... I travel frequently on weekends. A link back via amateur radio gets me on my local network in the office at home in case the DSL line is frotzed for whatever may be the reason. Since the ham-link would be directly into the linux box I could then use it to get to the router or anywhere else on the local network. The login shell would not be the Citadel server but a menuing system that I've already written. Once I am into that menu "I have my ways"... <evil grin>

So that's what I meant when I said that I'd still be happy if "the only user is 'me'."

--K2NE

[#] Mon Sep 30 2013 22:07:50 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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I agree vince-q.  When we speak of WAN, we really mean it :-)  It is fun to see how much can be done with so little bandwidth.  It is not always fast, but I know of node sites that are going on almost 12 years of uptime (and counting) here in Minnesota.  That has to count for some 9's :-)  Fun to see what traffic will pass when you get creative some times.



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