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[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 16:14:15 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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We regularly hang heavy stuff off of walls. I hung a 40lbs clock on the wall without a thought. Works fine.

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 16:47:51 EDT from davew @ Uncensored

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Ragnar: What I'm getting at is the original builder is supposed to provide a load capability for the stud wall so occupants know what the wall can stand without falling over or pulling the plaster board off the wall. Most normal people can't understand (probably never even seen it) what it means so they do something totaly inappropriate and it pulls the plaster board off. Then they get someone in to fix that and that someone covers their ass by telling them not to hang anything at all on a stud wall. The myth grows and grows. Plasterboard has quite a high load bearing capability but you must use the correct fixings (which I'm sure you're aware of). There is a maximum these fixings can handle after which one needs a sheet of ply behind the plaster board to spread the load hence the building regs bit. I don't know the figures as it depends on various things like quality of plaster board, spacing between studs etc.

Obviously if one finds the studs and attaches to them for shelving the load bearing is higher but still there is a limit before the stud starts to move. UK stud walss are built as more of an after thought where American stud walls are, I believe, more integrated into the build and hence more strucural.

As an extreme example, if you knock down a stud wall in a UK house the ceiling will remain and nothing falls down. In an American house (correct me if I'm wrong you American people) the roof could come in on you. 

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 16:52:28 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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Yes, "stud walls" as you refer to them, may or may not be load bearing walls.

I recently heard a story about a wealthy Russian who bought a house in Greenwich, Connecticuit, who on inspection of the house was shocked to see wood studs.

He's having the house knocked down and built "properly".

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 16:55:20 EDT from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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There are "bearing walls" and "non-bearing walls" that is, load-bearing.
The non-bearing walls can be safely ripped out, windows cut in them etc.
The bearing walls have to be handled more carefully or your house will get screwed up or come down on you.

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 17:11:11 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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I know someone whose house sagged because of removing a load bearing wall.....

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 17:28:05 EDT from davew @ Uncensored

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I wrote a lengthy explanation on stud walls in the uk and then citadel boomed I think.

Anyway I can't be bothered to re write it all so suffice it to say it is ok to hang stuff on a stud wall if you use the correct fixings etc but UK stud walls are not as structural as American ones and probably can't handle as much load. 

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 17:43:35 EDT from nadia @ Uncensored

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a russian i used to work with told me about some gut renovations gone badly in moscow. the ceiling didn't cave in but the floor fell through to the one below...

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 17:44:15 EDT from nadia @ Uncensored

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Jul 17 2007 3:29pm from davew @uncnsrd
TriLcat: oh yes, forgot about that wimpy power supply they have. 3
phase at 240 there I think as well. Real men have 415 8-!

yes. (good thing i don't worry about a real man.)

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 17:46:44 EDT from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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davew.. your lengthy explanation did in fact get posted. You don't see it?

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 17:53:20 EDT from davew @ Uncensored

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I think something happened to citadel at the time of posting. My browser never refreshed. I think IG may have updated for the sieve bug that just crept in.

As the browser didn't refresh I went to a new room which didn't work either for a while but it would have marked the messages in this room as read, depending on where things were in the cycle etc and I never thought to check the read messages as its a bit laborious, selecting display old messages, waiting for refresh, selecting the newest form the list box and waiting for the refresh again. 

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 22:14:26 EDT from fxflynn @ Uncensored

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Just this recent discussion above about power differences between countries makes me wonder why on earth can be not have one power level stndard for the planet. What works in Britain, works in Canada, works in US works in Russia, works in Japan. Why not?

 Same deal with TV - why not have one universal standard. I don't see it being that difficult. 

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 22:46:09 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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I think the problem we've seen is that the United States has generally been on the cutting edge of technology. Later on, as other countries catch up, they wind up often surpassing us, because they've been able to see what's wrong with our standards.

Voltage, PAL vs. NTSC, our cell network vs. GSM, etc. etc.

[#] Tue Jul 17 2007 22:57:57 EDT from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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The 110V standard was established by Thomas Edison, it was the ideal voltage for his incandescent bulbs and for the generators he had developed. He also developed the "split 220" system. So technically the USA was the standard-setter.
But as Ragnar said, other countries had the chance to make improvements.
Many times I wish that the USA was on a 220V standard.

[#] Thu Jul 19 2007 12:26:46 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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I worry about 220V. all the plugs and wiring I've ever seen in europe have been these outrageously over heavy duty things.
Do you really need all the hardware just to run a few lightbulbs?
Granted edison didn't forsee the window air conditioner or likely the electric dryer or dishwasher, but is two phase 110 so bad? I'm not the elctrician,I really dunno.

I presume there's some rule about how much wire insulation you need to run a cable with two strands at 220v without arcing? Seems to me that 110v has saved millions of tons of wiring insulation...

[#] Thu Jul 19 2007 12:29:49 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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And as for walls, if you see a house being built in the US, you'll see the frame house-supporting structure is entirely made of studded walls-wood.
I'm told 16 inch to center walls can support 3 stories without blinking. I would still worry about adding another story to my house, but I'm told that's how it works.
The problem with making your house out of stone as I gather they do in europe/uk/india is that while it may never burn down, the cost of a house is astronomical at minimum.
Nowadays you can buy a prefab house in 2-3 pieces, they truck the parts to your plot of land and in two days, voila house.
Correction from above: private dwelling houses tend to be made of wood, but group homes like condos nowadays tend to be built out of these insanely crappy metal studs.
I always wonder how you're supposed to mount anything to them.

[#] Thu Jul 19 2007 12:46:12 EDT from bobernet @ Uncensored

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By using wall anchors designed for metal studs. Almost all office buildings have metal studs in their interior. There are also a lot of private houses going to metal studs in some parts of the country.

[#] Thu Jul 19 2007 12:52:13 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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I think houses here are built of a combination of cinderblocks and poured cement.

[#] Thu Jul 19 2007 14:17:36 EDT from harry @ Uncensored

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That seems viable, especially if wood is sparse in Israel. Not a lot of forests ??

[#] Thu Jul 19 2007 14:23:36 EDT from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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to run a cable with two strands at 220v without arcing? Seems to me
that 110v has saved millions of tons of wiring insulation...

Conserving copper is bigger win than conserving insulation. Double the voltage means half the copper.

[#] Thu Jul 19 2007 15:39:03 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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all of our forests are hand-planted. We don't cut down wood here for lumber.

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