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[#] Fri Aug 25 2006 15:46:30 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Light bulbs are illegal in the state of Utah.

[#] Sat Aug 26 2006 02:49:07 EDT from harry @ PixelBBS

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But in Utah you can have as many wives as you want, just no lightbulbs, Right ?? ;-)

[#] Sun Aug 27 2006 23:38:43 EDT from curly surmudgeon @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Iggy: Over the years you've contributed naught to serious conversation but derision and encouraged your syphocants to derail any meaningful conversation. Why do you continue shit-stirring? Ragnar: After considering the context and your continued attacks I've decided to take this head on instead of ridiculing you. Ridicule is too easy and allows the central issues to be swamped and forgotten, you lack the courage to back up your war mongering. To recap, our disagreement began with my objection to your supporting Bush, the religious nutcases, and the Iraq invasion. You've attempted to vector the issue into a judgement of my lifestyle. Unsuccessfully, I might add. The Iraqi invasion is neither a "war" nor a defensive military action but blatent theft to bring cheap oil to America. Bush failed in both venues. Cheap oil subsidizes the unsustainable lifestyle American have led for three generations, Americans have become used to living beyond their means thinking that is the way "it should be." That's what is bringing America down and destroying the very nation we both love. I suggest that you read the "Anti-Federalist Papers" and "Federalist Papers" they might dispel some of the incredible ignorance you're displaying. No, not just ignorance but _intentional_ ignorance which is much worse. It is doubtful that a closed mind can be helped and I certainly have no desire or intention to take on the responsibility to educate or dispel yours. I will, however, speak to those watching this tragic play. America is stealing the natural resources of the world to obtain a false, unsustainable, standard of living. That paradigm will inevitably crash harming millions of ignorant, trusting, people including those important to me. In the meantime these actions are harming millions worldwide. I refuse to participate in that lifestyle for it justifies the rape and pillage of the Earth. Not only are there billions more people on this earth than can survive at a moderate level of comfort but a few million are taking the resources which billions need to exist. I will not participate in that imperialism and have resultant deaths of others on my conscious. I will continue to minimize my footprint on this rock. Attacking and ridiculing a reduced lifestyle underlines your ignorance. I understand that you're angry at being labeled a hypocrite and coward. However I am but the messenger. Your own actions and positions have labeled you as such, not I. Showing your hypocrisy and using the proper name is no different than opening the curtains, looking outside and saying "It's daytime." Both are undeniable facts. In supporting the Iraqi invasion you have an obligation to back up your crusade, put your own skin at risk instead of sending others to die for your opinions. Textbook hypocrisy. The majority of wars in the last century are the result of one power wanting the natural resources of another. A myriad of excuses have been, and are being, used to justify these wars but the underlying factor of most if not all is that one country finds a weaker country and decides to take their resources. The excuses are but rationalizations. "They have WMD's!" "Saddam is a heinous murderer!" "To bring Democracy to the Middle East." They're all lies. You're either or intentionally ignorant or pitifully stupid, I suspect the former but do not rule out the latter. Instead of listening to the messages coming from the moslem countries our government has instead demonized them filtering the information "We, The People" are permitted to view. How many people know _why_ bin Laden declared war on America? Not the official U.S. government interpretation but really listened to his messages? Find the translations on the web and read them, you might be surprised to find that the format parallels the Boston Tea Party. No one likes being under the yoke of colonialism. Nobody likes coersion. Nobody likes being controlled. Most people rebel when forced yet American policy is to keep real leaders from power if it takes assassination. billions of dollars, and/or supporting a brutal dictator. That is why America is increasingly hated worldwide even as we are admired for the American lifestyle. 6 billion people cannot live as we do. Worldwide anger and population pressure will eventually halt America's theft of worldwide resources. You wish to continue the lifestyle that you enjoy. In some ways I understand that, it's comfortable, but you must understand the cost, perpetual war. Your lifestyle is being subsidized by the deaths of many thousands from Iraq to Columbia. This cannot continue, it is a house of cards which will inevitably tumble.. I, too, live at an elevated lifestyle but I'm downsizing those habits and trying to live within the means of this planet to support me. You attack my reduced lifestle, I take pride in it. If you wish to attack me find a weakness, not a strength, to chip away at. Since you've sprayed the citadel network rooms with attacks I'll answer them here. Most are rubbish, you've accused me of lying but been unable to support that charge just as you were unable to support the claim that African males have 20 sex partners a day.. You've attacked my financial situation, of which you know little to nothing. You've attacked my lifestyle here in Argentina again from a dearth of knowledge. You've attacked Argentina and expected me to defend an outdated and obsolete Constitutional clause 146 years old. None of your attacks stick. The real reason you attack is to deflect my observation of your hypocrisy. Your actions are unAmerican. America was built precisely to give citizens maximal freedom and remove governmental interferernce from our lives. Yet you seem to support Bush and his Imperialism which have done more to destroy our nation than any external enemy we've ever encountered. Including bin Laden. Now, if you want to continue your tantrum, please do so in the proper room. These attacks do not belong in Home Repair. Take it to either net.Religion where crazymotherfuckers belong or discuss international affairs in Politic.. Your behaviour here, in Home Repair, is but another indication of being a crazymotherfucker who lashes out in inappropriate venues whenever they feel slighted. Or in the presence of god. Whether expousing scripture in a scientfic forum, attacking ontopic postings in the Home Repair room, or ringing the fire alarm because you found the Virgin Mary toasted onto your grilled cheese sandwich, it's a sign of crazymotherfuckerism... You are an example of why I left America. Crazymotherfuckers need to attack all lifeforms which do not agree with their superstition to sustain their minimum level of bile. Intolerance of thought which does not parallel your cult beliefs is unAmerican and an excellent example of the sickness that has destroyed my country. An objective observer will recognize the christian penchant for intolerance. My country was inclusive, not exclusionary. Christians have neither a superior moral pedestal nor "Get Out Of Jail Free" card. I do not accept the paradigm that this planet has a never-ending supply of living flora and fauna to support the lifestyle America is accustomed to. Resources are finite and hogging about 30% of the worlds supply for 5% of the population is ethically indefensible. Others suffer for our excessive consumption. You rationalize this as "We bought it" while paying our agents put in charge of other countries, I reject that program and the misery it inflicts on others. Just because the misery is thousands of miles away doesn't mean it doesn't exist or the American Dream isn't causing it. America must rein in the excessive consumption and assist the world to overcome their squalid living conditions. To accomplish this means that America must do with less and live within renewable resources, the precise opposite of what you brag about. As we've discussed elsewhere, I live my opinions by putting my life on the line. I live in a remote province of Argentina by choice. There are disadvantages as well as advantages. You criticise without a shread of experience only as a means to attack me. It is obvious that no response will satisfy you, this isn't directed to you, Ragnar, but to the casual reader. I don't care if you approve of my decisions, I make them not for you but for my family, friends, and self. I will not support the current path of the United States federal government. I will not participate in a country where the government is but an arm of the industrial-military complex needlessly wasting our soldiers to enrichen a ruling class. My vote, as yours, counts for naught. Elections are a sham and few alternatives remain, armed rebellion or voting with your feet. I prefer the latter. For the time being. When you find the courage to put your life on the line for the wars you support get back to me and we'll conclude this conversation. Until then I don't care to argue with a hypocrite, go fish. In the meantime, back to Home Repair. Latest photos of "Esta Casa Viejo" and a roadtrip to Bolivia: http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/CurlySurmudgeon/ which includes the only real photos of me online.

[#] Sun Aug 27 2006 23:39:29 EDT from curly surmudgeon @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Sorry, the webclient mangled the formatting almost as bad as the text client does.


[#] Mon Aug 28 2006 04:27:03 EDT from Animal @ Uncensored

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Dude, carriage returns. Please.

[#] Mon Aug 28 2006 07:36:17 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Carriage returns are illegal in the state of Utah.

[#] Mon Aug 28 2006 09:27:18 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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I will continue to debate you, and call bullshite when I see it.

You call me hypocritical, but look at what you're doing. You've left America, with your American money to improve your lifestyle. The home you are building is not a reduced footprint, but much larger than what your Argentinian neighbors have. You
are using cheap labor to further your lifestyle.

Even in your photos you show your next projects. What are you going to do, rent them out, because you are the only person in the area who can afford them?

You brought this to this room by adding your silly anti-American comments. And then you say political banter doesn't belong here.

I've read the Federalist Papers, and the anti-Federalist papers. I've read the writings of Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Paine, Smith and Franklin. I've read the writings of Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt.

And one thing you
will take away from reading these men is that they were out to build a new empire. Look at the ideas of Manifest Destiny or the Monroe Doctrine.

Can you honestly say that America hasn't become what they intended? The real faliure of the Founding Fathers was the one thing they never anticipated, that people would fail to live up to being true Americans, and that we would fall into this
quagmire of moral relativism which is what truly is bringing this country down.

When you're losing an argument, you either drop off the net for a few days, or
just twist things into your reality. Look at your example "You've attacked
Argentina and expected me to defend an outdated and obsolete Constitutional
clause 146 years old."

Do you feel that way about the American Bill of Rights as well? Is it just an
outdated and obsolete document?

It is a fact that $10 millions US is paid to
the Catholic Church by your tax dollars in your
new home. I expect you to defend it, because you made a life choice which is
inconsitent with your message.

Regardless of what you say, I have not. My message has been consistant
throughout.

[#] Mon Aug 28 2006 21:50:57 EDT from curly surmudgeon @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Ragnar: Too many assumptions in there disguised as fact. You have idea how much money I have or where it came from. Likewise, berating my lack of daily logins is stupid. Your ignorance is appalling, your hypocrisy is disgusting, and your fantasies are just that.

Want a war? Go fight your own.

[#] Mon Aug 28 2006 22:10:36 EDT from curly surmudgeon @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Whoops, I meant to ignore Ragnar here. Sorry, it won't happen again in this room.

Was contemplating wells today. This is the third home I've had which relied on a well for all water. Water is something few people think about, it's automatic, pay your bill ande turn the spigot, eureka!

Wells are different and you must understand the geology, physics, mechanics, care and feeding.


My first experience was downstate Indiana near the Wabash on my great uncle's farm. Nasty water, smelled of sulphur, tasted of petroleum and left a red ring around your waist after bathing but the water table was high and inexhaustable.

In the Sierra Nevada foothills of California it was a completely differnt story, this well was in decomposing granite and only 6" in diameter but 160' deep. The water table was about 17' down so there was over 140' of water to pump out. This went into a pressure tank, which has an inflatable bag inside to maintain pressure after the pump pushes water into the tank. A check valve keeeps it in the tank for use upon demand.

The geology was great, decomposed granite is very pourous and we got a constant 17 gallons per minute. This wasn't much volume so sprinklers had to be on small circuits. Some neighbors had wells hundreds of feet deep, their eloectric bills must have been painful. Pumps don't suck, they push.

There are two main varieties of electric pump, a centrifigual pump which sets above the water line and sucks water up a few feet then pushes it to some storage medium. As you might imagine, when the water level drops the centrifigual pump begins to labor quickly and reduces volume fast.

The submersible pump sits at, or near, the bottom of the well making it easy to intake water. Problem is that the motor has to be well sealed and anti-corrosion. A submersible pump is considerably more expensive than a centrifigual pump.

Other gotcha's that you don't expect bite you in the ass. I must hav ehad my well in California open a half dozen times in the first year as it was poorly installed and missing important components for instance a rubber bumper around the top of the submersible pump. Without the rubber bumper the entire assy torques every time the motor starts grinding the external wires against rock. Failure is certain and unpredictable. A simple $20 part encircles the rising pvc pipe with four points which protect the wires outside the pvc pipe.

another gotcha is when you use the well a lot in dry climates. I have that problem now but already delt with it. A submersible pump is very skinny to fit easily down a well. Most fit inside a 4" well so they're about 3" in diameter but are up to 3 horsepoer. That means that there is very little mass, the heat is radiated in to the surrounding water. If the pump empties the well and sucks air then there is no coooling and it burns up in seconds. the solution is a float switch with hystersis, turn the pump off at some safe height then disallow until the well recovers a few feet.

My well here is one meter in diameter, hand-dug, so there's a lot more storage and the hystersis can be tighter.

This well uses a water tower up the hill instead of a pressure tank. Low tech but doesn't fail. Today I had the chance to see all protective devices in action using a lot of water irrigating and sprinkling vegetation.

another difference is that with the pressure tank a pressure switch was used to control the motor turn-on. With the water tower I use a swecond float switch, again with hystersis, to turn the motor on, this time, and off when it rises some distance above.

In both the last two cases the water is sweet and wonderful, no Perrier needed.

[#] Tue Aug 29 2006 00:41:56 EDT from harry @ Uncensored

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Curly - Sounds like a nice water system. And considering where you are, the low-tech approach makes LOTS of sense.


[#] Tue Aug 29 2006 10:11:47 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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How do the post anchors attach to the footings?

I drilled a hole in the top of the cement and got thes neat little I dunno what you cal lthem but they're like those wall anchors. you drill a hole, put the base in, then put a screw in and it presses out sideways, that's basically what it is.
The post itself is just sititng on top of the anchor, and gets screwed in from the sides.

[#] Thu Aug 31 2006 22:14:19 EDT from curly surmudgeon @ Dog Pound BBS II

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harry: Thanks, works well too. More to follow.

Ford2: they're called "anchors." There are a wide variety of them, those for concrete are usually a lead/tin alloy and soft so it oozes into the concrete crevices.

Wells, Part II

I glossed over many issues which go along with living on wells. One is health safety, you never know what is in the groundwater for sure until laboratory testing. When considering a home wiht a well be sure to check out the surrounding geology, neighbors, upstream polluters and prior occupants. I've heard many a horror story about homes built upon fill where the well was polluted with heavy metals or chemicals, other stories of groundwater pollution by cattle/pig farms upstream. The SouthEast side of Sacramento is heavily polluted with Perchlorate from a rocket engine manufacturer who is trying to clean up many miles of contamination while the children suffer from decades of chemical pollution.

Even when no pollution exists there is a chance of bacterial infection so be sure to have a sample tested regularly. I don't, after the first tests clean or nearly so. Instead I just chlorinate twice a year flushing all (EVERY) pipe and faucet until I smell bleach then letting it set for 36 hours.

People on wells should have the old, wasteful, toilets which hold 5 gallons of water, it's a great backup when the well system dies. There may be mud/muck in the bottom of the tank but the water itself is just fine. I also keep ample bleach and dry chlorine plus bottles of water around just in case.

People with children should read the laboratory report and pay attention to flouride. Few wells have flourid and my generation has bad teeth because of it. In the 1950's Crest began adding flouride to their toothpaste and now people recognize the value. If your well is low on flouride ask your dentist for a prescription vitamin for your kids. Adults don't need it. Too much flouride can turn teeth grey/dark and even leave scaly deposits on them but thats very rare and unlikely.

Harry: My house here has one water tank of 20,000 liters up the hill and a second tank of about 200 liters in the attic to supply the water heater so it doesn't burn up when water is unavailable.

[#] Thu Aug 31 2006 23:54:38 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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People on wells should have the old, wasteful, toilets which hold 5
gallons of water, it's a great backup when the well system dies. There


On the other hand, you're also surging 5 gallons into your septic system every time you flush. There's definitely a flip side to that equation.

[#] Fri Sep 01 2006 09:28:20 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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Fluoridation has been linked to increases in bone and breast cancer. Be thankful for non-flouridated water for drinking.

[#] Sun Sep 03 2006 03:57:55 EDT from harry @ Uncensored

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How many gallons is that, Curly ??


[#] Sun Sep 03 2006 19:48:11 EDT from "David Given" <hjalfi@uncensored.citadel.org> to harry <harry@uncensored.citadel.org>

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And for bonus points, tell us what definition of gallon you're using...

[#] Sun Sep 03 2006 20:15:26 EDT from arabella @ Uncensored

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Hint: 

 

Imperial Gallon = 90,000 drops

US Gallon = 70,000 drops 



[#] Mon Sep 04 2006 01:32:14 EDT from harry @ PixelBBS

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US Gallons. I'm on the NorthWest coast of the USA.

[#] Mon Sep 04 2006 05:57:26 EDT from "hjalfi" <dg@uncensored> to harry <harry@pixel.citadel.org>

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Yeah, but Curly's not --- what does Argentina use? (Well, metric probably.)



[#] Mon Sep 04 2006 11:42:32 EDT from Freakdog @ Dog Pound BBS II

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I'd waget that, more than likely, Curly's referring to US gallons.  I'd wager that Argentina uses the metric system, and refers to volume by liters, rather than gallons.


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