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[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 10:04:31 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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"This is a smoke-filled environment."

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 10:17:46 EDT from wizard of aahz @ Uncensored

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Sort of like how some people smoke after sex.



if you smoke after sex you're probably doing it too fast.. <GRIN>


I'd say people should smoke and treat the area outside their houses like they treat their own houses. But some people live in a stye and are happy that way. It's the people who keep their houses pristine but say fuck ya'll to the rest of the world that make me raise my eyebrows.

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 10:44:20 EDT from girthta @ Uncensored

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Here in North Cackalacky you can report litterers and they will send the offender a little reminder. Sort of like, "You were seen littering on x day at x place, shame on you." Kind of thing.

I thought that was cool. 



[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 10:52:24 EDT from Groo the Wanderer @ Uncensored

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I just don't understand why people don't get charged with littering when they throw a butt on the ground.  If I was a cop I'd sit across the street from a bar with a ton of pre-writed tickets to hand out.

Then I'd be done with my quota for like a 1/2 year. 



[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 11:04:42 EDT from Grey Elf @ Uncensored

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The hilarious part about the smoking ban in bars in NYC is they raised
the amount of crap that gets tossed on the street in front of bars,
not to mention all the noise complaints they get.

I don't have problems with non-smokers, I do have a problem with people
legislating their opinons at me. Imagine if the shoe was on the other
foot, and that in order to enter a bar, you HAD to light up. Pretty
fucked up, neh? Well, it's just the other side of the coin to what
exists now.

Wabe, were do we get those portable ashtrays? :>

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 12:48:37 EDT from Magus @ Uncensored

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It's not really the other side of the coin. Your decision to smoke has a negative effect on everybody around you in a way that my decision not to smoke does not. It may or may not be to the degree suggested by oft-quoted literature, but the smoke *is* causing harm to my health. It also negatively affects my quality of life in other ways: making the air I breathe less comfortable, leaving an odor on my hair and clothes that's unpleasant, interfering with the flavor of any food I may be trying to eat, and the like.

Now why should I be the one forced to leave when a smoker decides to light up near me? They're the one who's knowingly taking an action which both harms me and makes me uncomfortable.

Imagine that it were socially acceptable for some people to go around a bar twisting the nipples of everybody within 10 feet--hard enough to cause temporary pain but not hard enough to cause lasting damage. How is that different than your smoking in such a place, other than the social expectation? It's causing pain and annoyance, and probably isn't causing any meaningful long-term damage.

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 12:59:33 EDT from girthta @ Uncensored

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I think the main MAIN point here is not whether people should smoke in public or not, that's a whole other discussion. The discussion here was legislating where you can smoke.

I still say restaurants and the like (privately owned places where you make a decision to frequent or not) should be left to make up their own minds.

I'm for banning smoking in government buildings, the workplace (unless everyone smokes and you don't deal with the public) and mass transit of any sort. Other than that. it should be left to the storekeeper.

I took Maggie to a groomer. She did a great job- Maggie looked great. One problem... when I picked her up she smelled like a mix between smoke and doggy shampoo. Also the building reeked of cigarette smoke. I don't like that.  I won't take her back there. See how that works? *I*, the consumer, can make the decision and I don't need the government telling the shops I frequent how to do their business. I'd rather see the government do something useful like catch child molesters and fix the fucking potholes. Leave these little details to us consumers and we'll figure it out.

Another point... My best friend smokes like a fucking chimney. It's brutal, she CHAIN SMOKES. Her house is so thick with smoke that I literally can not breath when I go to her house. Guess what? I rarely go to her house. I love her, doesn't change how I feel about her, but I don't go to her house because I can't breathe. My choice, her house.

Now, what I *do* have a problem with is when she smokes in the office. See, I *HAVE* to be in the office, in this building with her. The smoking makes it literally hard for me to breath. I would prefer that she not do it, I have bitched a blue streak about it and she's stopped. But I'll bet as soon as we have this meeting with teh owners this week she'll be right back at it



[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 13:26:11 EDT from Magus @ Uncensored

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Hmmm...girthta, you do realize that NY, at least, banned smoking in restaurants under workplace safety laws? Why would you ban smoking in an office workplace environment, but not in a restaurant/bar workplace environment?

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 13:28:14 EDT from Grey Elf @ Uncensored

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Like Girty said. If you go to a place where smoking is allowed, then you've no
right to complain, just as I have no right to complain when I go someplace you
are not allowed to smoke.

Case in point: I'm not allowed to smoke in Aahz's house. So I don't. I don't
bitch about it, (Unless it's freezing outside, and it's just fun to annoy
Aahz), because that's his choice. If you come to my house and complain I'm
smoking, I show you where the front door is, because that's my choice.

As usual, it comes down to personal responsiblity. Instead of using ones own
choice to go to smoking or non-smoking places, they legislate it away so you
leave it in the hands of the government. I agree with Girty about those places
where you have no choice, such as government buildings, public transit, and
like, after that, leave it up to the business owner, and then vote with your
dollars.

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 13:30:23 EDT from Grey Elf @ Uncensored

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Oct 17 2006 1:26pm from Magus @uncnsrd
Hmmm...girthta, you do realize that NY, at least, banned smoking in
restaurants under workplace safety laws? Why would you ban smoking in
an office workplace environment, but not in a restaurant/bar workplace
environment?


Which was SUCH complete fucking bullshit. As someone who's worked in tons of
restaurants/bars, no one got a job thinking, "Oh, this is a smoke free
enviroment."

If the government wants to be so damn protective of us, then hell, lets
start outlawing butter, cream, anything with fat, sodium, refined sugars,
so on and so forth. Let's just all eat soybeans, and skim milk.

Personal Fucking Responsiblity. Something this goddamn country lacks.

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 14:24:53 EDT from girthta @ Uncensored

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Amen



[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 15:30:52 EDT from wizard of aahz @ Uncensored

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Right. Grelf understands that while I don't love the fact that he pees on my car, I understand and accept it. He understands that I don't want smoking inthe house so he accepts that.

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 15:34:30 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I love CitaDrift.

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 16:05:34 EDT from girthta @ Uncensored

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I think John Wayne said it best when he said, *COUGH HACK WHEEZE* "Gimme another cigarette lil'pilgrim."


[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 16:06:48 EDT from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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Workplaces are not public.. at least by MY definition.. unless you work for the government or possibly for a tax exempt or government funded institution.

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 16:17:19 EDT from wizard of aahz @ Uncensored

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fleeb - it's when there isn't drift that you should be surprised.

this was the food room, right?

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 17:04:33 EDT from curly surmudgeon @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Oct 16 2006 10:15pm from Grey Elf @uncnsrd (Uncensored)
As usual dicknose, you ignored the meat of the argument because it doesn't

follow your narrow world-view. Show me a credible study, that a) isn't
so
slanted as to be worthless, or b) pre-supposed all it's conclusions with

so little data, that it's vacated by a court, that shows second-hand smoke


Yet another Rovian attack. Brave motherfuckers hiding behind a modem...

Now, eat your words: http://www.cancer.ca/ccs/internet/standard/0,3182,3172_13127__langId-en,00.html

"Second-hand smoke is more dangerous than directly inhaled smoke. It is harmful even when you cannot see or smell it. Second-hand smoke releases the same 4,000 chemicals as smoke that is directly inhaled, but in even greater quantity. Approximately 50 of these chemicals (carcinogens) cause cancer."

This is the problem with BELIEVERS, they filter the evidence to substantiate opinions. Lack of objectivity and closed minds cannot accept evidence to the contrary, even decades of evidence.

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 17:07:32 EDT from curly surmudgeon @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Oct 16 2006 10:15pm from Grey Elf @uncnsrd (Uncensored)
As usual dicknose, you ignored the meat of the argument because it doesn't

follow your narrow world-view. Show me a credible study, that a) isn't
so
slanted as to be worthless, or b) pre-supposed all it's conclusions with

so little data, that it's vacated by a court, that shows second-hand smoke

is as dangerous as all the scare-mongers say it is.

You can't. Don't like smoke, then don't go where there is smoke, don't

legislate your preference for the rest of us. Speak about arrogance. If

I wish to go somewhere that doesn't allow smoking, then I don't smoke.
But
that simple personal responsiblity was too much for you fucking idiots.


"I don't like this, so you can't do it." If that isn't the most arrogant

fucking view on the planet, I don't know what is.

Smoking
is bad for you. Any schmuck that ever picked up a cigarette and
thought otherwise, deserves brain-cancer of the ass.
Second-hand smoke
isn't good for you either, but not even close to what the PR firms and

the anti-smoking goons say it is. Again, you support people legislating

taste, which makes you a hypocrite.

It's ok to outlaw smoking. (Opinon)
It's ok to legislate religious views. (Opinon)

You agree with one, and disagree with the other, when they're both the

same thing at it's heart. Ergo, you are the hypocrite we all know you

to be.

(And yes, it is a raw nerve with me. Even when I didn't smoke I thought

it was complete bullshit what they do to smokers. We pay more taxes then

anyone else per dollar spent for an item. I disagree with heavy drinking,

does that mean prohibition should return? No, it's just
my opinon, thats
the difference between me, and the mongers who think it's their right

to legislate taste. Just like you Curly.)


Geez, you and Ragnar are two peas in a pod. Hone your reading skills and re-read my positings before you plop another hizzy on us. Pay particular attention wher eI mention now much I detest these kinds of laws.

It's the arrogance of smokers who have caused this bullshit. At least you had the honesty to state that your rant is opinion when misrepresnting my position.

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 16:42:21 EDT from Grey Elf @ Uncensored

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Problem with that Pete is the service industry. Casino's still let you smoke.

But of course, the restaurants in the casino's don't.
^^^^^^^
^^^^^
^^^
^
Food related, so there. :>

[#] Tue Oct 17 2006 17:12:45 EDT from curly surmudgeon @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Oct 17 2006 10:02am from Peter Pulse @uncnsrd (Uncensored)
Businesses should be free to decide what they allow, and they can post

it on the door.. eg Smoking, No Smoking, Smoking Section or whatever...

If you don't want to hang out with smokers, don't go into a business
that allows smoking.



No question. I think hte conflict arises with smokers in common areas where little option exists for those unwilling to suffer. For instance going to City Hall where one must run a gauntlet of smokers fanning out of every portal.

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