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[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 17:27:56 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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silver bat: you might try visiting some of the other BBS's before speculating about what they're like. It's not as if you have to make long distance calls anymore.

You don't have that garbage locally on Haven because there just aren't that many people on Haven. It's a nice BBS, but let's face it: it's a *small* BBS. When you only have a few people, you're going to have few (if any) conflicts. Ian does a good job of running his site.
But if it were an order of magnitude larger, I guarantee you'd have people tangling with each other from time to time.

[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 17:55:09 EST from Winzlo @ Uncensored

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Well said, IG. Besides, conflicts take 2 people. Let it go, and it will do just that, go away. Ignore it, treat it as what it is -- garbage, and get on with your life. People like that need fuel to flame, don't give it to them.

[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 18:22:00 EST from Tony Preston @ The Amiga Zone

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Ahem.... Citanews never had a topic...:)
I might symbolically filter Curly here on the last day I am up. Curly will take it as a protest of Iggy's actions. Iggy and others will just ignore it...
It is a topic older than dirt, it has the lights on but nobody is home, There are 6 oars and none are in the water... Get the idea...
Lets go to Sports and read about my NFL predictions...

[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 20:42:53 EST from Freakdog @ Dog Pound BBS II

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The problem, Winzlo, in this particular case, is that it doesn't go away.
It goes into remission for a month or so, and then the end of it that doesn't get to Uncensored, anyhow, flares back up again.

[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 20:39:11 EST from silver bat @ Haven BBS

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IG: After seeing the way people act in the net rooms, frankly, I don't WANT to visit the other BBSs. And Haven has been around for a long time, not neccessarily as a Cit board, but it has been around. I think it had a (correct me if I'm wrong here, Ian) 10 year anniversary last summer. I've been there most of that time, and it wasn't always as small as it is now. Sure, there were user conflicts. But I can't remember any of them that sunk to this level of mud slinging.

[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 20:47:56 EST from silver bat @ Haven BBS

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Let me add to that... Any that sunk to this level of mudslinging for a great length of time, and weren't taken private.

[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 21:07:00 EST from ChuckE @ Haven BBS

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And, I might add, several of the users Haven *does* have do *not* post in the network rooms very often.

[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 22:00:06 EST from Tony Preston @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Here I am.... All the way to Indiana...


[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 22:32:50 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Haven has been around for a
long time, not neccessarily as a Cit board, but it has been around. I
think it had a (correct me if I'm wrong here, Ian) 10 year
anniversary last summer. I've been there most of that time, and it
wasn't always as small as it is now.

bat: with all due respect -- this isn't a "my bbs is bigger than your bbs"
thing; I'm merely trying to illustrate that larger communities are a bigger
challenge to maintain -- at this very moment, there are two users logged into
Haven, and 17 logged into Uncensored. Take the likelihood of any two people
having a problem with each other, and multiply by the number of people
present ... it's easy to extrapolate.

But I can't remember any of them that sunk to this level of mud
slinging.

God bless all of you, then. I'm happy that you've got that level of
harmony in your community.

[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 23:02:50 EST from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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...Indiana, here I come...

[#] Mon Dec 02 2002 23:35:15 EST from catwoman @ Haven BBS

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Silver Bat is right. Haven has had a lot more users at different times, and has had its conflicts, but they have all been settled within a short amount of time. One thing I will add here is that Curly has contributed very highly to conversations here on Haven and almost always has generated a large amount amount of intelligent discussions. He has given me a lot of good advice, both on the board and in chat. I really hope that he will make it here to Indy for a user meet someday as I would love to meet him. And I think that one of the reasons he is so well liked here is that he does contribute intelligent conversation to the board.

[#] Tue Dec 03 2002 00:54:55 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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i think i'm gonna puke.

[#] Tue Dec 03 2002 05:30:51 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Perhaps he is a better fit for Haven than Uncensored?

Individual BBSes represent specific demographics. Where the personality of a specific person on one BBS may be seen as benevolent, on another BBS may be seen as disruptive. Even ignoring the number of users on a BBS, there will be a variety of personalities at work on any given BBS, and some personalities work better together than others.

I can understand why someone might feel hurt about finding himself banned from another BBS. I can also understand why someone might ban another from his BBS. These things happen. It isn't a matter of right or wrong, it's simply reality.

From my perspective, Curly had contributed the occasionally interesting discussion from time to time on Uncensored. However, most of the people on this BBS have a low tolerance for certain forms of behavior that, unfortunately, Curly did (and, presumably continues to) engage in. I suspect Uncensored users, often with a strong technical background and a low tolerance for what they regard as 'BS', grew weary of some of Curly's repetitive diatribes against religion. Eventually, this spilled out of the original room where these sorts of discussions occured (net.religion). In essence, he just didn't fit into the culture here.

At some point on Uncensored, a new user may find himself getting flamed (after a fashion). In fact, I got flamed for at least a couple of comments I've made here, and I've seen it happen with other folks.
It usually works the same way; someone calls 'BS' on what you have to say, and very bluntly throws it in your face. What can you say? Uncensored is located in New York.

Handling yourself during one of these situations acts as a kind of rite of passage here. Handle yourself properly (which takes on a variety of forms) and the community accepts you. Handle yourself poorly, and the community will give you plenty of hints that you're not wanted.

Unfortunately, it can happen that someone doesn't take the hint (although this is very very rare).

I suspect in Curly's case, he didn't get the hint. He doggedly wanted to continue on here, but he just doesn't fit in. So extreme measures had to be taken. Sadly, from the discussion here as well as the occasional things that pop up elsewhere, it seems Curly has some sour grapes about the situation. Again, I can understand that. Nobody likes to be cast out. Nobody likes to think that they won't fit in somewhere, especially if he otherwise likes the particular community.

But at some point you simply need to let go, accept things, and move on.
It certainly isn't as if there aren't other BBSes in the Citadel network, and it certainly isn't as if Uncensored is the best community in the world (there *isn't* a best community in the world, only a community that best fits you).

[#] Tue Dec 03 2002 06:58:00 EST from Tony Preston @ The Amiga Zone

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EXPOSEE: Why must I use Internet Explorer to access Uncensored and Dogpound!?! Netscape 7.0 will get a file (not a page) when I click on the LOGIN button and doesn't know what to do with it (it is some kind of a frame setup, not much, about 20 lines or so. IE handles it...
It Citadel/UX just a front for the ever expanding attempts for M$ to take over the online world????

[#] Tue Dec 03 2002 08:56:17 EST from Freakdog @ Dog Pound BBS II

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FWIW, I don't have that problem with Mozilla or Netscape 4.7x.

[#] Tue Dec 03 2002 08:30:49 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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*flames fleeb for mentioning the C---y word*

[#] Tue Dec 03 2002 08:44:38 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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*whimper*

[#] Tue Dec 03 2002 09:04:05 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Hmm... I've used Netscape 7.0 to log into Uncensored before... is this new?

[#] Tue Dec 03 2002 09:33:09 EST from Winzlo @ Uncensored

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Freakdog, yet here we are, proving my point. (We as in everyone who even gives this a second thought!) Let it go, and treat it as you do bills. Tolerate and forget about it. Ok, bad analogy, but I've been a Sysop for over 20 years (mostly Internet service for the past 7), and have at least learned one thing in that time. Annoyances are that. Hostility is that. Recurrances of either are as much the part of the offender as they are of those who haven't let go. Either they remember and are bitter, or they are not seeing the offender for what they are and/or represent.

Best piece of advice I can give -- laugh, live and let live.

While I'm now just as guilty as the rest by writing this, we've got to put an end to the subject. Nothing good can come of further bantering about it, and there's a lot more to lose. Maybe I'm just nostalgic about the way Citadel (and BBS's in general) were ran and the types of users that contributed, but these kinds of problems only really retract from the "joys of BBSing."

I've run several BBS's in those 20 years (mostly due to hardware/software changes, physical relocations for college, etc.), I know how hard it was for me personally to watch my own systems degrade into "mudslinging", I doubt it's any easier for anyone else. I guess that goes into a "Why I do it" speech that I'll avoid at this point. Short answer is that there are so many good people out here that do contribute positively, and do inspire thought and creativity in others, they don't deserve the diminished experience of sifting through ancient rubbish, any more than I did as a Sysop to try and put some sort of positive twist on it.

Happy Holidays,
-Winzlo

[#] Tue Dec 03 2002 10:28:58 EST from Freakdog @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Hmm...I wonder if there's something about my firewall?

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