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[#] Tue Feb 14 2006 22:31:42 EST from the8088er @ Uncensored

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I have a TRS-80 model.... the laptop version. Works well too. Can't think of a good use for it, though. I'd like to use it as a serial terminal, i don't know how fast it runs at though.

[#] Tue Feb 14 2006 22:35:57 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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More info at

The FAQ (this thing just happened, how can any questions have been frequently asked yet?) covers open source topics, and at this time they are claiming that they will continue to develop the product and that they will continue to use the dual-license that has made it useful to open source projects.

We'll see what happens.

[#] Tue Feb 14 2006 22:45:03 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: sleepycat/berkeleydb/oracle

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seriosly, tho, any idea what oracle is really up to and is there a
contingency in case they get all close-source about the whole thing?

Worst-case scenario is that we switch to a different data store. Our server is designed to make that transition without too much difficulty. In fact, we've done it before: from 1998 until 2000 we used GDBM, and then in early 2001 we switched to Berkeley DB.

Switching again would be a time-consuming nuisance but it can be done without a major rewrite of our data store. I personally hope it *doesn't* come to that though, because a lot of effort went into our Berkeley DB back end. Most of it was done by LoanShark, who (since I haven't mentioned this lately) is the primary person to thank for Citadel's data store being so reliable.

[#] Tue Feb 14 2006 22:45:28 EST from hrbrmstr @ Uncensored

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First inno, now good ol' db. what's left for them to take over?

[#] Tue Feb 14 2006 22:53:49 EST from hrbrmstr @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: sleepycat/berkeleydb/oracle

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LoanShark: thank you! from a recently converted Citadel user. *:^) Actually, a big thank you to all of the Citadel developers out there/here. I do work for non-profits and non-profit schools and I'm moving them all over to Citadel as fast as time permits. It plays nicely on the VPS hosts I use (Fedora Core 2-based) and jumps right out of the box.

[#] Tue Feb 14 2006 23:40:41 EST from idget @ God-Empresses Domain

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Not only 'henges, but also all the DragCit derivatives.  Halls have some interesting effects.  Around here, back in the day, floors=minibin.
Feb 14 2006 5:18pm from Peter Pulse@uncnsrd (Uncensored)

That was Stonehenge.

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 00:03:52 EST from idget @ God-Empresses Domain

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Lest anyone take my last remark wrong -- I liked minibins, very much, that was hardly an insult.

For those who don't know my background, I'm in Seattle, have been using and running BBSes since the early '80's, with a strong preference for room-based systems in general and DragCit derivatives in particular and a special fondness for MavenCit and FredCit.  From '94 - '98 I was paid to run a 12-node Citadel network for the county.  The Hues were pretty much unknown here, and their work with the 'Minneapolis-style' cits was quite foreign to the Citadel community locally.  Heresy, I know, to say Hue Sr and Jr were unknown, but it's the simple truth here.

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 07:20:59 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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It isn't heresy. Not around here, anyway :)

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 09:43:00 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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This is about as official as it gets:

Hi Art,

I saw your concerned post on Slashdot.

I just wanted to reassure you that Oracle has no plans to discontinue any of
the Berkeley DB products or change dual license business model. All of
Sleepycat's employees have joined Oracle and will continue to develop,
support, and promote the products. Both open source licensees and commercial
licensees will be supported. Oracle will continue the business with minimal

Citadel's use of BDB will be unaffected.

Rex Wang
VP Marketing
Sleepycat Software

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 10:08:58 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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There's a remote possibility that Oracle absorbed these guys so they could make use of the underlying database engine technology for their own work without having to release their sources.

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 10:23:50 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Most (all?) of their products are dual-licensed. Couldn't Oracle simply purchase a commercial license if they wanted to do that?

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 11:17:29 EST from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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Hmm "Oracle Lite"? It's possible.

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 11:50:07 EST from Ian M. Shot @ Haven BBS

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Not all BBS software required hoops to run MulitUser.   Major BBS was pretty simple to do multiline.  Install mulitiple modems, install BBS software and TADA! you were off and running.  I ran Major BBS for a short time prior to running Citadels.   I also ran WildCat! for a while, that did require Desq/View (I think that is what it was called).  But like I said Major BBS from Galacticomm under DOS was simple to setup multiline.  

 Major had some really nice chat features.  Its messaging capablilities sucked, and files were ok, not great but not too bad.  Multiuser games it also excelled at.  

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 12:29:07 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Maybe Oracle thought it would be less expensive to just buy them?

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 12:39:13 EST from gldnspud @ Uncensored

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Perhaps so, at least in terms of image.

Which would look better to Oracle's stockholders? Oracle purchasing a
license to use someone else's database code, or Oracle purchasing the
company that made that database code and thus benefitting from others
purchasing licenses from Oracle? :)

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 15:47:48 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Ian: Galacticomm wasn't as ugly as the "one physical computer per node" model, but it was still somewhat ugly. After all, they still had to manage all of the modem, serial, login session stuff on their own, while Unix did/does all that naturally. Just run everything to stdin/stdout and the OS handles the modems for you.

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 18:17:07 EST from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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Yea but abstraction can be a pain in the ass too. A state machine does impose a certain level of discipline to your code, and you never have to worry about buffering, line discipline, signals or any of that. You're totally in the drivers seat. I had fun doing that kind of programming with the dialogic board under DOS. I was part of running the ENET Galacticom in Brooklyn back in the day, and we had the source so we could add things. But I wasn't doing any of the programming.. I didn't know C yet.

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 21:12:37 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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True... you can do some fun things that way. There is a Citadel clone called "bbs100" that operates in that fashion, except the "lines" are telnet sockets instead of modems. The code is tight and portable. Of course, it's strictly text mode BBS so they can't easily add things like web access, Internet mail, or groupware features. So it's always going to be a tradeoff.

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 21:13:13 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Oh, and because you've uttered the words "state machine" I must pull out a
copy of this lovely poem:

--- cut here ---

Dec 5 2001 5:26pm from LoanShark
state machine!
state machine!
o how i love thee

state machine,
state machine,
so intertwined

state machine,
state machine,
better than spaghetti

state machine,
hate machine
who the hell needs localization anyway?

state machine,
shmait machine!
screw this, i'm getting into real-estate

[#] Wed Feb 15 2006 22:00:08 EST from Peter Pulse @ Uncensored

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Hehe. Actually I've thought more than once of writing a single process SMTP server with state-driven logic. It's a natural application because the states are so clearly defined.

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