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[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 20:53:55 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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But You Get It Because It IS MONSTER CABLE.

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 21:16:26 EDT from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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I've done extensive testing on this stuff. A friend of mine has bench
tested a shitload of cables and measured substantial results using real test
equipment (he's also been a recording engineer since 1972 and has built
professional studio equipment since ~1985). I'm not going to ignore my ears,
his ears, the ears of a lot of respected audio engineers, and scientific
measurement because some guy with a free tripod account says it's a myth.

There are bullshit and/or ill-understood things in the pro audio world, but
cable quality being a myth isn't one of them.

I can probably find you a web page with Bea Arthur blowing a donkey, but
that doesn't make it so.

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 21:36:40 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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Unfortunately, I can't find the article by Bob Pease (a well respected EE who writes for EE Times) who has written many articles on how audio cable is one area where audio experts are full of shit.

BTW, I've opened up a number of high end speakers, and what kind of cable do you find inside them? Absolute crap.

I've played with a lot of audio equipment. Other than having mismatched impedences (which is probably where you're hearing the differences due to amplifiers working easier/harder) I think you'll find that in blind tests, you'll never hear a difference. (And if you are testing using a switch then your results are null and void.)

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 22:11:32 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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All I know is that I connected up my Denon amplifier and Polk speakers (not super high end, but not junk either) with a spool of cheapo lamp cord I bought at Home Depot, and the whole system sounds great. Matching the components to each other, placing the speakers well, and fine-tuning the amplifier for even sound distribution among the channels in relation to the acoustics to the room, are the truly important things.

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 22:18:31 EDT from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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Yeah, that stuff is definitely more important. But if you do all that stuff
and test some different cables, you should be able to hear the difference.

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 22:32:59 EDT from 2Dog @ Uncensored

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My favorite soundboards are Neve (auto) and Soundcraft (automated Europa). I have used and worked on both of them and none of the ribbon cables & other wires were more than 22guage except for the power leads. This does not speak for external leads to the amp room, or the amp rack, etc. All of the cables (I prefer Belden for mics) beyond the soundboard need to be of the highest quality whether they are xlr or main leads from amp to speaker. And yes, there is a difference among brands. :)

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 22:41:22 EDT from nadia @ Uncensored

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(meanwhile, girthta never gets a straight answer, just a can of worms)

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 23:10:07 EDT from 2Dog @ Uncensored

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Girthta: probably a lot of places. I think the choice should be directed more towards brand and wattage rating. Or does the speaker you want have just one cone, or a woofer & tweeter, or a woofer & midrange & tweeter. Then you should decide if you prefer ceiling installation or to hang them on a wall or put them on a cabinet etc. Wiring the house is not easy, but before you snake those wires through your walls & ceiling/attic/whatever you want them to be of a decent quality. Lamp cord is cheap, but in extended lenghts it has a tendency to pick up the 60hz cycle hum from your house's electrical wiring. Everything all depends really. I wish I was a close neighbor, I could give you much better advice if I actually saw first hand what you want to do. As far as places to shop, there are many. In the Past I did business with Full Compass Audio. They may still be industry only and not available to Joe Consumer, but I'll bet they send you a catalogue if you ask them.

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 23:16:37 EDT from 2Dog @ Uncensored

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*opens the floor for recommended brands of speakers for girthta*

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 23:25:07 EDT from nadia @ Uncensored

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i'm very happy with my polk audio speakers.

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 23:31:57 EDT from UWAnimal @ Uncensored

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I bought a pair of "CyberAcoustics" speakers for around $40 from RadioShark.
I've been really happy with 'em. Only thing I have against them is the cable clutter (it's not designed too well), and I had to replace the input end.

[#] Wed Aug 27 2003 23:47:42 EDT from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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Ragnar, I have done a substantial amount of blind listening tests and can
easily tell the difference. Your argument leads me to one of three

1) You've done the tests yourself and can't hear the difference. Fine. You
can't, I can. Nothing wrong with that, just a diffference in hearing.

2) You're taking someone else's word for it and defending it as though it
were fact, which seems silly to me. See Bea Arthur reference above.

3) You're making shit up to be contrary.

Also, I'd be wary or a straight electrical engineer talking about pro audio
- they tend to be very focussed on specs, which is often inappropriate in
audio. Case in point: the specs on the first-generation ADATs were
mind-blowingly impressive, but they sounded unlistenably awful. Lots of
products are like that - they've got great specs but sound terrible. Then
there are products which have crappy specs (like tube amps - terrible S/N
ratios, terrible THD figures, Miller effect, etc.) but sound great.

[#] Thu Aug 28 2003 03:10:22 EDT from nadia @ Uncensored

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"i think it depends on what you're listening to" - matt

[#] Thu Aug 28 2003 08:55:02 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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Not trying to be contrary. If you are using the same guage wire (with the same strands) I'm saying that you'll be unable to hear the difference. I've done lots of testing on this. Now if you can hear the difference, I'd actually be shocked.

As for the specs comparison, I find that that's what the "Monster Cable" type companies do. They show these ridiculous charts to trying to show their copper is better. Hogwash.

Just about everything else in the audio chain has real effect, especially the speaker.

As for girthta's question, it really depends on how much you want to spend.

For the consumber brands, Polk and Boston Acoustics are both pretty good.

[#] Thu Aug 28 2003 10:25:56 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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"i think it depends on what you're listening to" - matt

Heh. Try Emil Beaulieu - the crappier your stereo equipment, the better :)

[#] Thu Aug 28 2003 11:06:01 EDT from Mr.T @ Uncensored

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It's not just about the metal. Higher frequencies travel along the outside
of strands while lower frequencies travel through the center. Getting the
balance right keeps the signal in phase, which is shockingly important. The
material used as a dielectric makes a diffference in high frequency
transmission. There's also crosstalk - when you put two wires close enough,
signal jumps from one to the other. There's impedence. There's shielding.
There's cable grouping, which effects crosstalk and EMI/RFI rejection. If
the cable or shielding is is too stiff it can become audibly microphinic.

Someone mentioned console and mic cable. That can be thinner because it
generally carries far simpler signals, and always at much lower power. This
is not to say that you still can't hear the difference.

[#] Thu Aug 28 2003 13:52:07 EDT from girthta @ Uncensored

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The wiring will already be done... We're paying to have the house prewired for sound. The wires will be in the ceiling. Two in the family room, two in the kitchen, two in the study and two in the master bedroom.

So, as much as I enjoy all the rabble rousing about wiring, I'm more concerned about the speaker issue... (ceiling speakers) At some point we will probably have to invest in a new stereo, but we have something to limp along with for now.

And I don't listen to loud music... though I think Dan might when I'm not home.

(nadia- ask a stupid question, right???)

[#] Thu Aug 28 2003 14:10:08 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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All speakers sound the same.

[[ runs for cover ]]

[#] Thu Aug 28 2003 14:11:45 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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... to the deaf.

[#] Thu Aug 28 2003 15:18:48 EDT from girthta @ Uncensored

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No, I'm no audiophile, but I KNOW that's not true!!!

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